Company making threats regarding GDPR

[jd01]

I'm currently dealing with a nightmare of a company, they own a large ATM unit that's left in my shop by the previous occupier, I've asked them to remove it but they keep saying that it's not something they can do at the moment because they're based in Wales and there's a lock down, so I found a company in England which does ATM installations/removals and got a quote (around £1000) from them which I then presented to the ATM owner company, but they dismissed it stating something along the lines of the removal company not being professional enough, so I went back to the removal company and asked if they can provide information regarding their experience which can put the ATM company's mind at ease, they asked for contact details and I provided them with the email address of the person within the ATM company that's dealing with this situation, after a few hours I receive an email from that ATM company employee stating that I've breached GDPR and that she's going to take this further!

Sorry for the long story, I have no idea what she's talking about really, I thought we were looking to find a way to remove their ATM unit and that's why I shared her email address, is her threat something that I should concerned about?

[ostell]

If it's* a company email address then I believe she's talking a lot of waffle. GDPR is to do with personal details and not company, that's my belief.


From your other thread this company appear to be working on making your life difficult!

[des8]

The GDPR applies to processing carried out by organisations operating within the EU.
Individual employees of companies can be held liable, but I don't believe a private individual can be.

tagging R0b for confirmation or otherwise!


Regarding that machine just get it moved and charge it up to Notemachine!

[R0b]

Not sure I follow what this is about but to answer Des' question, GDPR applies to both individuals and organisations so long as you are processing personal data within the definition of the GDPR it applies.

Prime example is a recent case in the Netherlands where a grandmother was ordered to take down photos of her grandchildren.

Of course, if you qualify for the personal or household activities exemption then the GDPR obligations as to processing doesn't apply.

jd01 why don't you send them a notice under the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 and give them notice to remove the ATM otherwise you will dispose of it yourself and sell it at auction, deducting any costs incurred as a result.

[jd01]

From your other thread this company appear to be working on making your life difficult!

That's what I'm finding so bizarre, not only are they not removing their ATM, they seem to behaving in a unkind and indecent way while all I've asked them to is just take their ATM!

[jd01]

Not sure I follow what this is about but to answer Des' question, GDPR applies to both individuals and organisations so long as you are processing personal data within the definition of the GDPR it applies.

Am I correct in assuming that GDPR wouldn't apply in this case, because I shared her company email address with the removal company that wanted to help her company's ATM?

why don't you send them a notice under the Torts

I've done that already, but they keep threatening me that removing the ATM would be a criminal offence, plus it'll cost £1000 to remove it, and I'm afraid they may take me to court and hurt my new business which is already under financial pressure.

[R0b]

Am I correct in assuming that GDPR wouldn't apply in this case, because I shared her company email address with the removal company that wanted to help her company's ATM?

Based on what you've described I would say yes the GDPR would apply as a corporate email address is still personally identifiable information. However, you could argue that there is a legitimate interest in you disclosing that email address. If the email address was publicly available then that person even less reason to cry GDPR. Sounds like she doesn't understand the concept and like many who are unaware of how it applies, think their data can only be processed with their explicit consent.

I've done that already, but they keep threatening me that removing the ATM would be a criminal offence, plus it'll cost £1000 to remove it, and I'm afraid they may take me to court and hurt my new business which is already under financial pressure.

So either call their bluff or leave it where it is, there is an absolute defence under the act where notice has been given and they have point blank refused. Sounds like there is no reasonable excuse for them to come and collect it based on the current circumstances, especially if social distancing and other measures can be observed. The fact that buses and the London Underground are operating where social distancing isn't observed (but other measures such as masks etc. are recommended), why can't this company do the same?

Ultimately a balance needs to be struck on the one hand people shouldn't go out to work unless they have to and on the other, you need it removed, presumably as you want to put something else in its place.

Couple of alternative options:

1. Tell them you will charge them storage fees. I've never found a legal authority to back this up but works more times than not to get the owner into gear. However the Torts Act does allow you to deduct costs from the proceeds of sale and there might be an implied argument that would include the cost of storing it after the date for collection has expired until the sale occurs.

2. Even if point 1 might be legally correct, then you could instead argue trespass. There is legal authority that allows someone to charge the trespasser a reasonable rate who is making use of their land without permission - usually based on the going rate. Can't see any reason why the trespass option can be used in combination with the sale of the ATM.

3. Could be a possible argument for nuisance but I'm just throwing that out there and haven't really looked into it.

Like I said, it's your choice on the next steps but whatever you do, make sure to document it and if you haven't already, get some photos of the ATM's condition as you don't want to be lumped with any damage charges should they choose to collect.

[jd01]

Based on what you've described I would say yes the GDPR would apply as a corporate email address is still personally identifiable information.

What are the ramifications of that? They don't seem reasonable or decent at all, could they get me into trouble regarding GDPR?

Sounds like there is no reasonable excuse for them to come and collect it based on the current circumstances

There are at least two companies in the England that can remove the ATM in a few days and deliver the unit to its owner in Wales, but the problem is that they need cooperation from the owner company, and they're not willing to do that! What they need to do is provide information to the removal company to open the safe and unbolt the unit and then it can be removed, so it seems that not only they're not removing it (they now say they'll remove it as soon as possible), but they're not even helping a third party company remove and deliver the unit to them! The unit has no value at all so it can't be sold, the removal companies are also concerned that the ATM company might not accept the unit upon return.

I'm having a hard time understanding their end game here, they seem to be simply wasting my time and inundating with threats instead of just taking their property, meanwhile their two week notice is over and I still can't refurbish my shop. I'd really appreciate some further advice on this, as I want to take steps in a way that won't end up with me having more problems with them in the future.

[des8]

Contrary to R0b 's suggestion re storage fees, it has always been my understanding that they can only be charged if contractual.
I think there is case law about that.

It leaves you the option of suing for damages following trespass

[R0b]

Contrary to R0b 's suggestion re storage fees, it has always been my understanding that they can only be charged if contractual.
I think there is case law about that.

It leaves you the option of suing for damages following trespass

Happy to stand corrected Des, never been able to find anything concrete on the point so its always been used as bluff words to get things moving. Having said that because there is a power of sale under the Torts Act, the reference to costs incurred in the sale could, in my view, be wide enough to cover storage until the sale has completed. I think the issue is more likely to lie in the storage costs pre-sale but even then, there's still a potential argument for deduction of storage costs. However, you are right, trespass is probably the better option for some kind of recovery for loss of room space.

What are the ramifications of that? They don't seem reasonable or decent at all, could they get me into trouble regarding GDPR?

Like I said, legitimate interest would seem to be the appropriate argument here under the GDPR. If you are unsure what this is, the ICO has a lengthy guide on this point.

If the company isn't playing ball and accepting that someone can come out to remove it but they're refusing to co-operate, I think there is reasonable argument to make the arrangements yourself and get it sold. There's a helpful Court of Appeal case (Da Rocha v Mortgage Express) which went through the authorities on involuntary bailees and concluded that an involuntary bailee should do what is right and reasonable, whilst taking into account the particular circumstances of the case. Clearly if the company is refusing without reasonable justification, especially where there are companies who are prepared to do the job, could be considered unreasonable on their part and reasonable for you to make arrangements to dispose of it.

Don't take this the wrong way but, it seems to me you aren't willing to pull the trigger on this one and you'd rather go round in circles thinking about what-ifs. It's ok to have a moan, but I think all options have been outlined now so I don't think there's anything else to add. The problem with most companies these days is that a lot of them are all mouth and when it starts to get serious, they actually do something about it. That's not to say this company won't take you to court for wrongful interference with their goods but you won't know their next action unless you make the first move.

[jd01]

I think there is reasonable argument to make the arrangements yourself and get it sold.

The problem is that it's not actually possible to sell it, the cost to remove the ATM unit is nearly £2000, and the company which gave me that quote said that they'd need the company that owns the ATM to turn off the alarm and help them to have access to the safe which is currently closed

Don't take this the wrong way but, it seems to me you aren't willing to pull the trigger on this one and you'd rather go round in circles thinking about what-ifs.

The threats from this company has made me a bit anxious so I'm trying to find as much information as possible, the other problem is that out of the two companies who have agreed to remove the unit one has already pulled out after contacting the ATM owner company and another says that they need cooperation from the company that owns the ATM before they can actually start the removal process as the ATM can't be moved until the safe is opened by its owner.

[des8]

So you are now left with a court injunction that they remove the machine and an action for damages following trespass

[R0b]

And the alarm can't be turned off by cutting whatever electrical wiring necessary to do that? That could be one option, risky but still an option on the basis the company was just not playing ball at all, despite offering to have ti delivered to their premises.

Otherwise, I agree with Des. Go down the interim injunction route followed by a claim for trespass, or issue a claim for trespass and an injunction ordering them to remove it.

Either way, your options are becoming more narrower until you get to the end of the line where you just do nothing and wait and see.

[jd01]

And the alarm can't be turned off by cutting whatever electrical wiring necessary to do that?

Possibly, but the removal company said that they need the safe to be opened by ATM owner, and they're not willing to do that.

a claim for trespass, or issue a claim for trespass and an injunction ordering them to remove it.

Can I charge them storage costs and as well as for trespassing, or is it just for one of those, could you please kindly clarify?

[R0b]

You can try, but if as Des suggests, storage can't be claimed except for contract that argument falls away and in any event, it might be considered a form double recovery i.e. you are charging storage costs but at the same time would be charging a rate for what you might expect if that space was rented.

If you've got time on your hands, there are two useful Court of Appeal cases on how trespass damages in your situation might be determined. In short, the amount would be based on a hypothetical negotiation for a licence (permission).

Stadium Capital Holdings v St Marylebone Property Company Plc

Eaton Mansions v Stinger

The Eaton case is longer than the Stadium Capital but the discussion and key points for you I think are paragraphs 12-25.