bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

[bekks30]

Please help!...i am desprate Yesterday i woke up to bailiffs hovering over my car, which was parked outside my aunties house. I went outside to talk too them they told me i have two pcn outstanding i informed them i had recently contcacted the local council because i knew i had a ticket but could not find it.

The council told me that i had 2, one that was with equita bailiffs and one that they still had with them. I had not recived any letters from equita so i paid the first ticket online for £95.00. A few days later i recived a letter from the council acknowleging the payment but saying i must contact equita regarding the bailiff charges, i called equita who was unaware of any pcn outstanding. So i thought all was sorted and i only had 1 fine to pay.

The bailiffs at my car was from Jbw saying that i still owed them and that i have to pay there fees i explained to them that i recived a letter from the council but was unable to show it to them because i was not at my address. I would not acknowledge any charges they want for the ticket i paid online "and told them they cant collect money for a debt that has already been paid, and that i have not recivied any letters from them. but was willing to come to an arrangement about the second pcn, the man in the van was relaxed and cool about it all he called the office and put me on to the manger i explained to him the same as i did to the man in the van what the council had told me and sent me. he the started shouting and saying he's calling in the the removal truck and told me to put his man back on the phone so i did, the van man went to the back off his van to get a clamp but my boyfriend jumped in my car and drove off. The van man was still cool at this stage as was i but the manger on the phone was shouting and stuff, i told the van man again i am willing to come to an arrangement regarding the 1 outstanding pcn and asked how much it was he said it was £342.28 so i asked how it got to that if the orginal ticket is £155.00 so he called back the manger who was still really angery he broke it down £155.00 fine
£16.02 for first letter issued on31/03/2010
£188.08 to release the vehicle
i told him that my car was not clamped and no longer here, he started shouting again at me then said fine i am charging you with attendance to remove then, and then hung up. i turned to the van driver and said i am willing to pay the orginal fine and cost of first letter only. because i dont belive that the attendance charge is valied as i am not at my home and letters of removal has not been sent first. The van driver was unsure what to do and said phone him on monday beacuse he cant be bothered and his manger is really angery and he aint calling him back. Now i dont know what to do i need my car but i aint going to get ripped off by the bailiffs :cry:

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

You need to write a letter of complaint to your council and to the bailiff firm. You then need to have a read of this Bailiff Guide - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

If you need any help, then just post back here.

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

I have read the bailiff guide and am not sure how to put the letter together please advise me how to. I spoke to the council today they said they was sorry for any wrong information given by them to me but i must pay jbw the £424.73 they say is outstanding. I explained to to them that i wasnt able to pay such a large amount of money to jbw and had i been given the correct info from them then i would have been able to sort this before there was such a large sum now due. I asked them where i can get information regarding the term and set fees the local court has set with jbw but no one knew what i was talking about! I also asked that since the pcn was paid and no debt was outstanding could jbw still ask for payment under the notion of collecting an outstanding pcn they was unable to answer me. Now i am just more confussed as the council are in the wrong and are allowing the bailiffs to take advantage of there mistake.

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

The first thing to learn about bailiffs and councils is not to use the telephone to contact them.

If this fine was paid before Equita carried out any work, then they have no business claiming they should be paid for work they have not done.

Have a read specifically of post #3, but of the whole thread in general as it covers this very topic (although this is council tax, the principles are the same) Jacobs / Council Tax - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

ok i am going to put a letter together covering my concerns relating to the council and bailiffs handling of me i will post it so you can tell me if i am on the right track.

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

Nogger wrote some very good letters, have a read and see if there is anything you can adapt Dispute with Bailiff - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

ok i have written the letter to the baiffs please advise me on it, sometimes i tend to babble on so let me know what needs to stay and what dont i am in the process of writting the councils letter.
I have recently moved but still have accees to all my mail should i change the adress the bailiffs wri

Dear sirs

Ref **88*

I am writtimg to you in relation of the above PCN. On saturday 10th March 2010 I was informed by one or your employees (I wasn't shown any identification by him so I am sure if he was/is a certified bailiff) that I had an unpaid PCN registerd with your company. This was the first time I was informed of this as I have never received no correspondence from your company and was informed by the local council on 2 occasions and in writting that the company dealing with this PCN was not your company but an other.
The PCN to date is paid in full which I know your company is aware of as your worker confirmed this on saturday.
As the PCN is paid in full I refused to pay however your employee informed me that they still want paying. I belive this to be fraud: section 1-5 Fraud Act 2006 charges for work not been done.
I am extremley dissapointed in your companies attempt to make me pay for cost for a debt you are not in possession off. I inform you that I will also be writting to and making an offical complaints to the council regading there failures and responsibilities too and sharing of incorrect information if need be I will be filing in the local court. and will seek further legal advisement.

Your employee's did not provide me with any written authorisation that they was working on behalf of the local council or courts nor was I told the exact amount due for the above PCN nor was i given anything in writting.
I now require you to complete the folowing SAR and have enclosed the statutory maximum of£10. as payment for this information.

kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque.

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account
2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account
4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account
5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account
6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating my account
7. Copies of letters relating to my account
8. All information relating to litigation that has taken place on my account
9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item
10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account
11. For any cost which relates to an attendance fee, kindly state the date and precise time of the attendance and the name of the certificated bailiff making each attendance with the name of the county court where the relevant bailiff obtained his or her certificate
12. Copies of all relevant paperwork created as a result of any and all visits ever made to me along with details of the results of each visit
13. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property after each visit was made including details of the date and precise time of the visit and the charges incurred; this must include the name of the bailiffs who attended

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which can write me at.

This document is a notice of proceedings and is deliverd by recorded royal mail.

Yours faithfully


(Your Name)

cc. (Your local authority)

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

You are getting confused with a Subject Access Request and a letter of complaint. You don't really need a SAR as they haven't actually carried out any work collecting the debt from you.

I'll work on it for you.

What date did you pay the fine online and what date were you visited by JBW?

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

fine paid on 4/3/2010
Jbw was hoovering over my car on saturday 10/04/2010 not at my address i was out visting family

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

Leave it with me.

[Amy]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

I write with respect to the above PCN.

This PCN was paid in full on 4th March 2010. However, I received a visit from your bailiff ********** on Saturday 10th March 2010.

I was not shown any identification by the bailiff, but informed him that the PCN had been paid in full and indeed, this was confirmed by him.

Your bailiff believes that I owe and must pay fees amounting to £424.23 even though the fine was paid 6 days before his one and only visit notwithstanding the fact that I have not received any documentation or any letters from your company relating to this PCN in the time between the PCN being issued and the PCN being paid in full

Given that your company has not undertaken any work in the recovery of this debt, I would like to draw your attention to the following question asked by Lord Lucas to the Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) “Whether a bailiff who repeatedly charges for work that has not been done commits a fraud within the meaning of Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006; and, if so, which sections of the Act apply; and whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter.”

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal) replied: “A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 1 of the 2006 Act contains the new general offence of fraud.

One means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.”

Unless I receive a satisfactory response to this letter I will make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman on grounds of maladministration, misfeasance and/or malfeasance regarding JBW’s flawed procedures and failure to control its bailiff (insert name of bailiff). I reserve the right to instruct my solicitors to issue proceedings in the County Court against JBW, within which proceedings may, inter alia, seek substantial damages together with costs and it is also my intention to further instruct my solicitors to seek Counsel’s advice in respect of criminal proceedings in the Magistrates Court.

I look forward to your comments.

Yours faithfully


(Your Name)


cc. (Your local authority)


blue = only write this if you are prepared to carry it out, otherwise, leave this part out.

[WendyB]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

The council told me that i had 2, one that was with equita bailiffs and one that they still had with them. I had not recived any letters from equita so i paid the first ticket online for £95.00. A few days later i recived a letter from the council acknowleging the payment but saying i must contact equita regarding the bailiff charges, i called equita who was unaware of any pcn outstanding. So i thought all was sorted and i only had 1 fine to pay. I'm confused here - are there two fines, if so, it seems to me that you have paid one, and the bailiffs (albeit the wrong bailiffs, so to speak) are chasing you for the second one?


how it got to that if the orginal ticket is £155.00 you said you paid £95, so presumably this £155 is for the second fine? How do you know it was for this amount? :cry:

Sorry, but unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick, the bailiffs aren't chasing you for the fine you've paid, )£95) but for the second one, (£155) which you haven't. That said, they obviously can't charge you for recovery of the vehicle as they never tok it away in the first place.I would write to the council also, along the lines of if they hadn't given you duff information by telling you thatEquita were dealing with it you would have been able to sort it out quicker.
Amy, if I've got this copletely back to front ehn please give me a slap!!

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

Thanks for the redraft of the letter i am sending it today recorded deliver i am unsure about the part in blue but am really, annoyed so i may keep it on as sometimes you have to really fight for what you believe in.

[bekks30]

Re: bailiffs claiming fees on paid pcn

Respons to wendy B: I was given the information on the pcn from the local council they told me at the time of my call i had 2 pcn 1 at £95. 1 at £155. they said at the time of me calling the fine of £95. had been given to equita bailifs and i should contact them directly and they gave me equita number. the fine at £155 was still with the counil and had not yet been handed over but would be shortly. on saturday they was quite adamante they wanted to collect charges for the paid pcn off £95. see how problematic the council make my life and then dont want to fix there mistakes:cry: