Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

[Bernie259]

Hi, I received a Claim Form from Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd for THREE credit card debts, totalling, £19,000+ that are three years old, I am severely disabled and two of the credit card companies were happy to take a £1 token payment, the other did not even want this and was not pursuing me, until now that Cabot claims to have bought these debts. There is no breakdown of how much is owed to each original creditor or any papers to support their claim.

The CAB advised us they cannot lump three credit card debts from different creditors onto one claim form, does anyone know if that is correct? Thank you Bernie

[Curlyben]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

When you say a claim do you mean a court claim (N1) ?

If so can you post up the POC.
CAB are indeed correct Cabot cannot lump together 3 different accounts in this way.

[Bernie259]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Hi, thanks for that, also the account numbers listed on the PoC's do do relate to any of the three credit card accounts

I have attached the Claim Form
Bernie

[Curlyben]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

ROFLMAO !!!

Oh my fecking god I have never seen something so stupid !!!
Well not from a court anyway.

[pt2537]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

oh my word

The claim is so defective on so many levels

Firstly, the claim form has a defective statement of truth. this prevents them from relying upon the contents of the form, see CPR 22, so that is enough to kill it.

However we have further issues

The pleadings are frankly deficient,

They plead that the debts were purchased, but fail to say from who?

They plead statutory interest but are not entitled to it. See County Courts interest on judgment debts order 1991

no details of default is pleaded whatsoever, that is fatal on its own.

There is no detail on how the sums claim are accrued.

there is no details of the assignment of the debt.

If that claim landed on my desk it would be over to Steven Turner like a flash with an application to strike out their claim as having no prospect of success, its sooo wrong notwithstanding the fact that they have lumped three causes of action into one claim, that cannot be done
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id just like to add that, the failure of the pleading to state how the purchase of the debt was conducted, means that they havent established locus standi and privity to contract.

if you do not have locus standi, you cannot sue, period so that is enough to make the claim fail, not withstanding the complete balls up they have made on the rest of the claim

[Bernie259]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Thank you very much, that’s most encouraging.

What do you think I should do?

• Wait to see if they respond to my defence?
• Ask for the £13 back I sent them for the CCA & SAR as they issued a defective claim while they had put me on one months notice, and then ignored the CPR 31 request?
• Why is the statement of truth defective (because it’s not signed?)
• Who is Steven Turner?

Thanks
Bernie

[Tools]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

And for the english speaking among us

locus standi = right to be heard (and yes I had to google it)

Question for curly/ pt , are Morgans Cabots in house solicitors?

[pt2537]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Locus standi means standing, an interest in a matter, it is a requirement for such claims as Judicial Review,contract claims etc, you need ot have an interest in the matter
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Thank you very much, that’s most encouraging.

What do you think I should do?

• Wait to see if they respond to my defence?
• Ask for the £13 back I sent them for the CCA & SAR as they issued a defective claim while they had put me on one months notice, and then ignored the CPR 31 request?
• Why is the statement of truth defective (because it’s not signed?)
• Who is Steven Turner?

Thanks
Bernie

Ok, Steven Turner is counsel i use, he only takes instructions via a solicitor though. he is based in Parklane Plowden chambers and he did the famous Dimond and Lovell case in the House of Lords

The statement of truth is defective because

A) it is not signed by the person
B) because it purports to be from Cabot but underneath it purports to be their solicitors

If a CPR 31 request has bene made then they can ignore it as they havent actually identified any such documents in the pleadings, CPR 31.14 can be ignored if you havent actually pleaded any documents, you could have made an application on N244 under part 18 though but that is now too late probably

Have you filed any defence? if so what did you file? you may need to apply to amend it but without seeing it i cant say
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Question for curly/ pt , are Morgans Cabots in house solicitors?

if thats what you wish to call them, yes, i do not think they are worthy of such a title myself but thats just my view and opinion of course

[pt2537]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Have you actually filed any defence?

[Bernie259]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

I COPIED MOST OF THIS DEFENCE FROM FORUMS

In the Northampton County Court

Claim number XXXXXXXX

Between

Claimant

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited

and

Defendant

XXXXXXX

________________

DEFENCE

_________________

I, XXXXXX, acting for the defendant, XXXXXXX, who is my severely disabled husband, will state as follows;

1. The defendant does not admit any allegation made in the claimant's Particulars of Claim, he has never entered into any agreement with Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd and has no credit card accounts with the following numbers listed in the Particulars of Claim; XXXXXXX, XXXXXXX, XXXXXXX, and I put the claimant to strict proof thereof.


2. The claim as pleaded does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. Further, no documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered. I have made a request for disclosure, pursuant to Part 31.14 of the Civil Procedure Rules, to the Claimant, to allow me to properly respond to the claim. The Claimant to date has failed to respond to the Part 31.14 request. (Exhibit 1)
3. The claimant has failed to comply with Practice Direction Pre-Action protocol. The claimant had put the defendant on one month’s notice of taking legal action in a two letters dated 29th April 2009, relating to two of the three alleged debts listed in the Particulars of Claim. The claimant then without further notice issued a claim on 5th May 2009.
4. On 7th May 2009 the defendant made a Consumer Credit Agreement request and a Subject Access Request to enable him to prepare his defence. To date this has not been forthcoming and this has now been superseded by my CPR 31.14 request dated 18th May.
5. It is Not admitted that I signed any agreements with any of the credit card accounts numbers, mentioned in the Claimant's Particulars of Claim. If, which is not admitted, any such agreements do exist the precise terms and dates of any such agreements are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreements and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the dates and terms of such agreements.
6. It is averred that if any agreements did exist that the aforesaid agreements would be regulated agreements within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("the Act"). It is not admitted that any alleged Agreements are enforceable within the terms of the Act. As I do not have a copy of any of the said agreements, the Claimant is put to strict proof that the aforesaid agreements were properly executed and have been enforceable at all times since their inception.
7. I have no knowledge of the service of any default notice relating to any of these alleged agreements. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the content and service of any such alleged default notices. It is noted that without service of a valid default notice the Claimant is not entitled to terminate any regulated agreement or demand earlier payment of any sum.
8. The Claimant has stated that it purchased the alleged agreements. It is averred that any purchase would have been done by way of an assignment.
9. It is not admitted that there was any lawful assignments. The Claimant is put to strict proof that the assignments were lawful.
10. Further and in the alternative it is not admitted that the sum claimed is lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sum claimed has been calculated and as to how it is asserted that the sum claimed is contractually owing.
11. It is denied that the Claimant may claim interest under the County Courts Act as the alleged agreements are regulated by the Consumer Credit Act.
12. Further and in any event in view of the failure to comply with CPR Pre-Action Protocol and the CPR Part 31.14 request, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to costs as claimed.
13. In view of the above, it is not admitted that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.





Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.
Signed
XXXXXXXXXX

..…………………….

Acting For the Defendant (XXXXXXXXX)
Dated the 28th May 2009

[Tools]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Nice defence. It may have been prudent to have included that they had bundled 3 claims into one also and that the claimant named was incorrect but other than that, very nice.

[pt2537]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

well

My first thought was strike it out, but the courts are very very reluctant to do that on the first attempt, it is a harsh sanction to place on the otehr side and courts try to keep that as a last resort.

my second thought, and in my view the correct approach

You seek an order by way of an N244 that requires the claimant to plead their case effectively in accordance with CPR 16 within 14 days, then you file and serve a defence which complies with CPR 16.5

if they fail then they are struck out

this would need a hearing although it would only need 20 minutes of the court time.

I will have a ponder on this over the weekend, i have three files that im working on so once ive sorted these out i will have a good think on it

[Bernie259]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Thank you very much for your support, it is very much appreciated.
Kind Regards
Bernie

[pt2537]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

ok this is the application notice, i will draft up a draft order and witness statement either this evening or tomorrow. basically i think that we should get them to plead effectively as the claim you have sucks more than a cheap wh*re and they should atleast be made to plead their case correctly

[Bernie259]

Re: Three Debts On One Claim Form-is This Legal

Hi, I have just had a quick read of CPR 31, and I can now see what you mean regarding them ignoring my CPR 31.14 request, because they have not listed any documents in their POC, they also ignored my CCA and SAR request, so is a N244 application my only option now, and can this be filed after a defence? Cheers Bernie
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Sorry for the cross over, I have just read your last message, thanks