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City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to do.

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  • City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to do.

    Hello,
    I found your site and joined because I could really do with some advice.

    I am an artist, a painter. I used to work in east London. Early this year we had to move out from our studios when they were bought by a developer. Our ex-landlord thought he'd do some of us a good turn and brokered a deal with the developer: the developer could take some of us on in another building at a low rent , and so cover basic costs and keep squatters out.

    So, in February 2014 I moved my materials to a space in an empty office building, with some other artists, in Holborn, belonging to this developer, who will demolish it and build a hotel there in march 2015.

    I took the space for storage only, as i had to leave afterwards for work, and then throughout the summer to france for my son's birth.

    When I got back there was a bill from the council for over 9000 pounds, along with earlier missives from the council asking for information.
    I got in touch and explained that:
    I had been away.
    It is storage
    That i conduct no business there.
    That it was not, and is still not clear that I should pay rates.
    That the building is awaiting imminent destruction and redevelopment.
    That my contact is for 3 months renewable for 750 a month.
    That I simply cannot afford to pay those kind of rates

    The council, or rather privatised payment department, was very brusque and unsympathetic and said there was nothing to be done. I could not apply for small business relief as the space is too large.
    They suggested I try the valuations office. I did, and was told the rate could not be modified.

    I wrote the council an email, pointing out that councils could use their discretion to come to terms with particular situations (I have seen plenty of this online), and accompanying this email with a letter from the developer's manager, re-iterating it is storage, temporary, etc.

    In spite of all this, the council responded with one email:
    'Dear Sir

    Thank you for your e-mail below.

    Please note that the landlord has advised that you are liable for the Business Rates for this assessment, confirmed in the contract extension you supplied. We are obliged to charge occupied rates on the property as listed in the Valuation Office ratings list. We do not have the discretion to waive the charge for fine arts or any other usage.

    Yours Faithfully'

    Faced with this, and a final reminder bill, rejigging installment sums into a smaller time frame in a rather unorthodox way, that came soon afterwards with a sum of over 11,000 ( for rates up to april 2015).

    So I moved out at the end of october. To limit damage.
    And last week went by and picked up this summons.

    What should I do?
    What do I risk if I disappear? Can bailiffs be sent to my private home?
    Should I go to the court and explain the intransigence of the council?
    Do I stand a chance?

    I have noticed my original contracts with the landlord state I may be liable for rates (leaving it ambiguous), but clearly state: 'the occupier does not have exclusive occupation of the premises and the landlord can re-enter without notice at any time for the purpose of running his business.'

    To my mind, this clearly contradicts rateable tenancy: 'the occupation must be exclusive for the particular purposes of the occupier'.
    It also obviates the fact that the business of these premises is the redevelopment, not the storage of some materials therein!
    Furthermore, that is why it was never a viable studio, as painting is an intensely delicate and private work, and I cannot have the coming and going of surveyors etc.

    However, if I can argue this, and if I do, I am going to run into issues with the landlord, as he presumably will become liable for the very same rates.

    Ideally I would like to pay something to the council , but something equitable.

    A painter downstairs got a knockdown rate, but his smaller and he was able to apply for small business rates relief.
    I knew nothing of all this and went in very naively delighted at this temporary but convenient solution.

    The hearing is on the 9 of december.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks.










    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

    I got back to the uk and to the rates bill in early september, I should add.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

      I wish I could assist/advise you but have no knowledge of such issues....... there are people who do on the forum ........I hope someone comes to you assistance ASAP.
      Sparkie

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

        thanks Sparkie.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

          Originally posted by giordanobruno View Post
          Hello,
          I found your site and joined because I could really do with some advice.

          I am an artist, a painter. I used to work in east London. Early this year we had to move out from our studios when they were bought by a developer. Our ex-landlord thought he'd do some of us a good turn and brokered a deal with the developer: the developer could take some of us on in another building at a low rent , and so cover basic costs and keep squatters out. So, a favour to the landlord (a reciprocal arrangement rather than a commercial tenancy)

          So, in February 2014 I moved my materials to a space in an empty office building, with some other artists, in Holborn, belonging to this developer, who will demolish it and build a hotel there in march 2015.
          See the possible exemptions/reductions
          I took the space for storage only, as i had to leave afterwards for work, and then throughout the summer to france for my son's birth. As above

          When I got back there was a bill from the council for over 9000 pounds, along with earlier missives from the council asking for information.
          I got in touch and explained that:
          I had been away.
          It is storage
          That i conduct no business there.
          That it was not, and is still not clear that I should pay rates.
          That the building is awaiting imminent destruction and redevelopment.
          That my contact is for 3 months renewable for 750 a month.
          That I simply cannot afford to pay those kind of rates

          The council, or rather privatised payment department, was very brusque and unsympathetic and said there was nothing to be done. I could not apply for small business relief as the space is too large.
          They suggested I try the valuations office. I did, and was told the rate could not be modified.

          I wrote the council an email, pointing out that councils could use their discretion to come to terms with particular situations (I have seen plenty of this online), and accompanying this email with a letter from the developer's manager, re-iterating it is storage, temporary, etc.

          In spite of all this, the council responded with one email:
          'Dear Sir

          Thank you for your e-mail below.

          Please note that the landlord has advised that you are liable for the Business Ratesfor this assessment, confirmed in the contract extension you supplied. We are obliged to charge occupied rates on the property as listed in the Valuation Office ratings list. We do not have the discretion to waive the charge for fine arts or any other usage. If I were in your shoes, this is the point I would probably argue (ie that the Landlord is liable for rates as he was in control of the premises and it was his business conducted there taking money for storage facilities - you were not a business tenant)

          Yours Faithfully'

          Faced with this, and a final reminder bill, rejigging installment sums into a smaller time frame in a rather unorthodox way, that came soon afterwards with a sum of over 11,000 ( for rates up to april 2015).

          So I moved out at the end of october. To limit damage.
          And last week went by and picked up this summons. Please would you post up the "summons" with your personal details removed?

          What should I do?
          What do I risk if I disappear? Can bailiffs be sent to my private home?
          Should I go to the court and explain the intransigence of the council?
          Do I stand a chance?

          I have noticed my original contracts with the landlord state I may be liable for rates (leaving it ambiguous), but clearly state: 'the occupier does not have exclusive occupation of the premises and the landlord can re-enter without notice at any time for the purpose of running his business.'

          To my mind, this clearly contradicts rateable tenancy: 'the occupation must be exclusive for the particular purposes of the occupier'. Agree.
          It also obviates the fact that the business of these premises is the redevelopment, not the storage of some materials therein!
          Furthermore, that is why it was never a viable studio, as painting is an intensely delicate and private work, and I cannot have the coming and going of surveyors etc.

          However, if I can argue this, and if I do, I am going to run into issues with the landlord, as he presumably will become liable for the very same rates. As said above, my argument would be that the LL is liable for any rates due.

          Ideally I would like to pay something to the council , but something equitable.

          A painter downstairs got a knockdown rate, but his smaller and he was able to apply for small business rates relief.
          I knew nothing of all this and went in very naively delighted at this temporary but convenient solution.

          The hearing is on the 9 of december.

          Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

          Many thanks.










          Hi giordanobruno ,

          My highlights in bold and red and my comments in blue.

          My experience of this is extremely limited (more below) but here is a link that explains the various routes of appeal: http://www.business-scene.com/resour...business-rates

          My (as said, limited) experience is very much that it works to connect with an actual Human Being in a position of authority - ie write to (or visit) your MP, the CEO of your council and any high-up in the valuers office, putting your appeal to them personally and explaining why your particular situation is "outside the box". They do have to abide by the law, but given an incentive (by which I mean a nudge to conscience) they are often able to find a way to give temporary relief that is within the law.

          Other than that - you need to pro rata what you have been charged (if you left in October it's a lot less than £11,000, which was for 12 months) and maybe come to a sensible arrangement with the landlord, who in my view has shafted you.

          Good luck! xx

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

            Dear Miss FM,
            thank you so much for looking over this. Points duly noted! Yes I've been rather naive, this was my first foray into commercial rates. I suppose if I go this way I will have to prepare myself for anything the landlord might subsequently throw at me.
            I've included a cropped summons letter.
            Again, thank you.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

              Am hoping that the cavalry will come to the rescue here, GB, as am not at all clued up on court procedure. :tinysmile_kiss_t4: x

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                I'll just have to remember your Joseph Campbell quotation!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                  The other thing that springs to mind is that, it being City of London, you also have Boris - if it were me I would make a personal appeal to him for help and support x

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                    sorry edited this because I forgot this was a forum.
                    Last edited by giordanobruno; 18th November 2014, 19:46:PM. Reason: private info

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                      kit malthouse is an ok guy, maybe..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                        Originally posted by giordanobruno View Post
                        kit malthouse is an ok guy, maybe..
                        who he? (edit: now googled = good plot, Batman)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                          But these fellas, Bojo and Malthouse (second in command till lately) are London town hall, not City of London which is a very different kettle of aldermen, lord mayors, town clerks , medieval whatnots and corporate soldiers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                            ''So, in February 2014 I moved my materials to a space in an empty office building, with some other artists, in Holborn, ''

                            What's happened to the other artists? or were you a group who took on the rent of the space under a group name ?

                            Yes you should go to the hearing and explain your situation and what you had stated to the council previously.
                            #staysafestayhome

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: City of London Court Claim for 11,000 pounds for artists storage, no idea what to

                              Originally posted by giordanobruno View Post
                              But these fellas, Bojo and Malthouse (second in command till lately) are London town hall, not City of London which is a very different kettle of aldermen, lord mayors, town clerks , medieval whatnots and corporate soldiers.
                              Then appeal to the above - no nepotism, then, and if you can locate a Human Heart and a human response they will be in a position to help if at all possible?

                              Comment

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