Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

[dsc20030]

Hi All, newbie so go easy!

Just a quick question really, as I've just sent off a CCA to Arrow (MBNA).

Cheers in advance

dc

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi and welcome!

Of course we go easy, despite being a bunch of beagles, we don't bite! :doggieyes: :tongue2: :beagle2222::beagle:

It would all depend on the wording of the letter sent but, in general, sending a CCA request doesn't acknowledge the debt.

A CCA request is most appropriate when the account was opened before April 2007. Would you care to tell us a bit more about this debt? :typing:

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Thanks FP!

I've been reading a few of the boards with interst, as I've just received a letter from Arrow/Blake Lapthorn about an MBNA default from 27/2/10. I rec'd a letter of assingment a week or so ago. I've also since received 1x letter from Arrown and 1x letter from Blake Lapthorn. Both attached (hopefully!)
I was very foolish a few years back, and buried my head in the sand when I had a few financial issues. I would dearly like to pay the £7k back, but I simply dont have the funds to do so. I suppose I was secretly hoping I could get to the magic 6 years SB point, but I'm still some way short.

Would you be able to let me know what options I have?

I have just today posted a CCA off to Arrow.

20131104 BT_Redacted.pdf20131030 Arrow_Redacted.pdf


Thanks again

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I've been reading a few of the boards with interst, as I've just received a letter from Arrow/Blake Lapthorn about an MBNA default from 27/2/10. I rec'd a letter of assingment a week or so ago. I've also since received 1x letter from Arrown and 1x letter from Blake Lapthorn. Both attached (hopefully!)

Those are just standard letters regarding the assignment. As you have already sent the CCA request to Arrow, you can just file those for now. They have 14 days to respond to a CCA request. If they contact you again, do post up. :typing:

I was very foolish a few years back, and buried my head in the sand when I had a few financial issues. I would dearly like to pay the £7k back, but I simply dont have the funds to do so. I suppose I was secretly hoping I could get to the magic 6 years SB point, but I'm still some way short.

Frankly, it wouldn't be wise to start paying at this late stage, not with just to years to go to SBd! :clock: Why would you dearly like to pay the £7k back to MBNA? You do know they are owned by Bank of America, who received billion$ in bailouts from US taxpayers as a result of the credit crunch caused by the banks, see below:

Bank of America received $20 billion in the federal bailout from the U.S. government through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) on January 16, 2009, and a guarantee of $118 billion in potential losses at the company.^[57] This was in addition to the $25 billion given to them in the Fall 2008 through TARP. The additional payment was part of a deal with the U.S. government to preserve Bank of America's merger with the troubled investment firm Merrill Lynch.^[58] Since then, members of the U.S. Congress have expressed considerable concern about how this money has been spent, especially since some of the recipients have been accused of misusing the bailout money.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_America

Would you be able to let me know what options I have?

I have just today posted a CCA off to Arrow.

The CCA is a start. :clap2: We'll just have to wait for their response before going further, we don't know what they'll come up with. Depending on the origins of your card, some MBNA agreements are enforceable, some are not. :thumb: Some have been lost forever (like mine). :bounce: :bounce:

This has been going on for 4 years, no reason why it can't go on for 6! :clock:

[mystery1]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

A CCA request is most appropriate when the account was opened before April 2007.

How so ?

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

How so ?

M1

Because although you have the right to request one for any account, after April 2007, the court has discretion to enforce even without a properly executed agreement, making the whole idea of a CCA request rather pointless IMHO, at least for the purposes of assessing enforceability. There may well be other reasons to send a CCA request.

[mystery1]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Because although you have the right to request one for any account, after April 2007, the court has discretion to enforce even without a properly executed agreement, making the whole idea of a CCA request rather pointless IMHO, at least for the purposes of assessing enforceability. There may well be other reasons to send a CCA request.

Under s77-79 unenforceability is no different before or after April 2007. S77-79 only requires a true copy not something that complies with any regulations.

You're mixing this up with 127 (3) &(4).

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Under s77-79 unenforceability is no different before or after April 2007. S77-79 only requires a true copy not something that complies with any regulations.

You're mixing this up with 127 (3) &(4).

M1

I do understand the difference between the two, s.77-79 only relates to obtaining a copy. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you send a CCA request for a debt from, say, 2010. Even if the agreement is not properly executed or does not contain all the PTs, the creditor could still enforce in court.

[mystery1]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I do understand the difference between the two, s.77-79 only relates to obtaining a copy. But let's say, for the sake of argument, that you send a CCA request for a debt from, say, 2010. Even if the agreement is not properly executed or does not contain all the PTs, the creditor could still enforce in court.

S77-9 is not concerned with any regulations regarding prescribed information. Never has been. Is the original and the true copy essentially the same ? If yes then under s77-9 then it's enforceable as far as these sections are concerned providing they sent a signed statemnt etc.. If not then it's unenforceable. This is curable.


Unenforceability under S127 (3) & (4) pre April 2007 exists with or without a s77-9 request and always will exist.

M1

[PlanB]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I've just received a letter from Arrow/Blake Lapthorn about an MBNA default from 27/2/10. I rec'd a letter of assingment a week or so ago. I've also since received 1x letter from Arrown and 1x letter from Blake Lapthorn. . . .

. . . I have just today posted a CCA off to Arrow.

While everyone else is busy discussing the legal merits of section 127 of the CCA 1974 I'd like to point out that Blake Lapthorn is a firm of solicitors and it may be unwise to ignore them. Although that letter falls short of the CPR rules for a Letter Before Action it is not unknown for Blake Lapthon to issue county court proceedings at the drop of a hat when met with silence. After all they are referring to the account as a *claim* not a debt in that letter :fear:

If you have sent a CCA request off to Arrow today I would be inclined to send a copy of that to Blake Lapthorn since the firm is not psychic and won't know what you've done unless their client (Arrow) tells them. Which I doubt.

http://www.bllaw.co.uk/services_for_...llections.aspx

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

While everyone else is busy discussing the legal merits of section 127 of the CCA 1974 I'd like to point out that Blake Lapthorn is a firm of solicitors and it may be unwise to ignore them.

I got the impression that the letter was just to provide repayment details after the assignment, as there wasn't a direct threat of litigation as such. I may have misinterpreted it, that's why it's good to have different people contributing. :grouphug:

Below I'm re-quoting what I posted yesterday for a similar situation, where the CCA request had just been sent (so it wasn't possible to argue non-compliance) but something vaguely ressembling a letter of claim had been received:

As they are threatening litigation, you may want to respond with something along these lines, editing the necessary bits to suit your situation, i.e. if you sent the CCA request directly to Shoosmiths as opposed to their clients. Sign digitally using a computer font and send recorded delivery.

Strictly speaking, they are not in default of your request because they have 14 days to respond, however, as they are also giving you 14 days, it won't hurt to reply now. Note that you are not saying they are in default of your s.78 request, as they are not in default yet, :clock: just that you have sent a request and are awaiting response. :thumb:

Dear Sirs

Re your letter dated xxth November 2013.

Thank you for your letter, the contents of which I have noted.

Since your letter clearly refers to the threat of litigation, I am treating it as a formal letter of claim, albeit an entirely defective one. I refer you to the Civil Procedure Rules Pre-Action Protocol practice direction, in particular Annex A and Annex B. You will note your letter fails to comply with either of the aforesaid Annexes.

Since you are a firm of solicitors, I cannot excuse such failures, and place you on notice that any litigation on the back of this letter will result in an immediate application to the Court requesting the matter stayed, with costs against you and your client on the indemnity basis. I refer you to Para 4.6 of the Practice Direction which explains the consequences of non compliance with the Pre-Action Protocol.

Turning to the subject matter of your letter, this matter is the subject of a dispute which has been raised with your clients representatives [yourselves if you sent the CCA request directly to Shoosmiths], and therefore it would be appropriate before you threaten litigation for your clients to actively deal with the issues which I have raised.

Section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 - You will no doubt be aware that Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act offers a provision whereby the holder of a running credit account can obtain vital information. This information is needed to determine the exact terms under which a financial account is administered, and complying with the provision is a statutory requirement. On xxth November 2013, I submitted a statutory request pursuant to the aforementioned section of the Act. I am awaiting a response to my request.

Accordingly, and in accordance with the CPR Pre Action Protocol practice direction, I look forward to your reply setting out correctly the nature of your clients claim and answering my dispute as stated above.

Yours Faithfully

Responding to solicitors' threats of litigation with letters like this often puts them off issuing a claim. ray:

[PlanB]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Maybe I'm overreacting but that letter tells the OP to pay the solicitor direct not Arrow and gives them 14 days to come to an arrangement if they can't pay it in full now.

In my bitter experience (I have five accounts with Arrow ) the process is you get a Notice of Assignment from Arrow which also tells you which DCA will be acting as their agent for collecting the debt and how to contact them for payment. Then you hear from the DCA (normally Wescot) direct, and if the DCA isn't successful in collecting the debt they return the account to Arrow. Then Arrow instruct Blake Lapthorn solicitors (they have a contract with them I believe) to take over and pursue you using whatever method they fancy. Blake Lapthorn work on a 'results only' basis for their commission so can be very aggressive and don't entertain lengthy chains of correspondence before pressing the MCOL button

The last paragraph on that page on the Blake Lapthorn website says " we chase debts by letter or phone . . . if pre-legal collection is unsuccessful our clients are able to move straight on to issue a court claim without delay".

I see no harm in the OP making Blake Lapthorn aware that they have sent a CCA request to Arrow. When I did that they immediately backed down and returned the account to Arrow

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

If you have sent a CCA request off to Arrow today I would be inclined to send a copy of that to Blake Lapthorn since the firm is not psychic and won't know what you've done unless their client (Arrow) tells them. Which I doubt.

Hi Plan B, I cc'd the letter to BL.

[PlanB]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Plan B, I cc'd the letter to BL.

[winner12]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

[QUOTE=PlanB;386817]

Hi
I have just sent the letter quoted above by FP to Shoosmiths since they threatened court action after I sent my CCA request
now I`m wondering should the CCA have gone to Arrow I`m a bit worried