Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

[d1ngle]

Hi,

I have written a CCA request for two loans and received just one back for a CC from 2002, but it was a very faded photocopy on a single page and just printed standard Ts&Cs behind it. Is this acceptable?

Also the other loan taken in 2011 hasn't replied to the CCA or the failure to comply to CCA request. Should I send the "in dispute" letter or just leave it and not remind them?

Thank you for any advice, it's appreciated!

D

[mystery1]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

I have written a CCA request for two loans and received just one back for a CC from 2002, but it was a very faded photocopy on a single page and just printed standard Ts&Cs behind it. Is this acceptable?

If it's easily legible then it would be if it was a "true copy" and a statement of account was provided. (as a loan i'm assuming there have been no variations)

Also the other loan taken in 2011 hasn't replied to the CCA or the failure to comply to CCA request. Should I send the "in dispute" letter or just leave it and not remind them?

The account is not in dispute because of a failure to provide a s77 copy. What are you disputing ? Interest rate, payments wrong, overpaid. None of the above.

Whether you write to them depends on your view. If you are looking towards statute barred then perhaps you might not. If you think it'll go to court you should always write to them as it'll appeal to the court and it could hit the claimant hard in costs if they should've known the issues as you told them.

M1

[d1ngle]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

If it's easily legible then it would be if it was a "true copy" and a statement of account was provided. (as a loan i'm assuming there have been no variations)



The account is not in dispute because of a failure to provide a s77 copy. What are you disputing ? Interest rate, payments wrong, overpaid. None of the above.

Whether you write to them depends on your view. If you are looking towards statute barred then perhaps you might not. If you think it'll go to court you should always write to them as it'll appeal to the court and it could hit the claimant hard in costs if they should've known the issues as you told them.

M1

Thanks Mystery,

The CCA has no statement of account on it.

ON the Loan I sent them a letter saying that they haven't responded to my CCA request within 10 days (after 18), then I sent another saying that if they didn't send it within 12 days the loan would be unenforceable. I was told on CAG that I should send a letter stating aftyer this 12 days stating something along the lines of "you have not responded to my CCA request so this account is now in dispute due to your failure to comply to the CCA request".

I'm going through DMP so don't want to affect it, but it's hard to know what's best. Obviously I'd like to think it was unenforceable, but surely they can dig a CCA out from somewhere?

I actually can't remember signing anything and thought it was all done over the phone, but for a 20k loan surely this can't be right?

How do you prove that they never sent you a copy of the CCA though, can't they just say "we did".


Thanks again

D

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Hi,

I have written a CCA request for two loans and received just one back for a CC from 2002, but it was a very faded photocopy on a single page and just printed standard Ts&Cs behind it. Is this acceptable?

Also the other loan taken in 2011 hasn't replied to the CCA or the failure to comply to CCA request. Should I send the "in dispute" letter or just leave it and not remind them?

Thank you for any advice, it's appreciated!

D

Sadly, you cannot really use unenforceability for accounts taken out after April 2007 due to a change in the law. The could still apply to the court for an enforcement order as s.127 which prevented the court from granting one was repealed in April 2007. I wouldn't remind them or send a dispute letter at this stage, it is a good idea to respond to letters but if they are not chasing you so, why chase them.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Thanks Mystery,

The CCA has no statement of account on it.

They are supposed to send a statement of account as part of their response to a s.77-79 request, but the statement would be a totally separate document, not part of the CCA. It would be a statement showing current balance and recent transactions as opposed to terms at inception which is what the CCA is all about.

ON the Loan I sent them a letter saying that they haven't responded to my CCA request within 10 days (after 18), then I sent another saying that if they didn't send it within 12 days the loan would be unenforceable. I was told on CAG that I should send a letter stating aftyer this 12 days stating something along the lines of "you have not responded to my CCA request so this account is now in dispute due to your failure to comply to the CCA request".

I'm familiar with CAG and that principle but it's not really necessary. If this is the loan from 2011 see above.

I'm going through DMP so don't want to affect it, but it's hard to know what's best. Obviously I'd like to think it was unenforceable, but surely they can dig a CCA out from somewhere?

I actually can't remember signing anything and thought it was all done over the phone, but for a 20k loan surely this can't be right?

How do you prove that they never sent you a copy of the CCA though, can't they just say "we did".

Why not remove all personal details and post up the alleged CCA? Provided it's for the loan for 2002, of course. If you are going for unenforceability, you wouldn't make any payments on a DMP, you'd stop paying so it can go Statute Barred, any payments will keep the debt alive. I'm following this route myself and I'm half way throug,h but whether that would work for you or not depends on the particulars of your account, if it's the one from 2011, it wouldn't apply as noted above.

[mystery1]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

S77/8/9 unenforceability wasn't repealed by cca 2006 unlike s127(3) and 127 (4).

M1

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

S77/8/9 unenforceability wasn't repealed by cca 2006 unlike s127(3) and 127 (4).

M1

I know, but wouldn't they be able to apply to the court for an enforcement order even if s.77-79 wasn't complied with? Would be interesting to get this argument settled because I've heard time and again you couldn't argue UE on anything post-2007. Does that mean if they don't supply an agreement for a post-April 2007 they still can't enforce? Because that's not what I heard OTR! :noidea:

[mystery1]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

No.

They would be able to produce a compliant copy any time but failure means unenforceable.

http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...stry-problems/

S77/8/9 is risky as they can fix at any time but they don't always manage to do so.

There is no irredeemable unenforceability since 2007 but there is still reedemable unenforceability and more than just s77/8/9 as well.

My advice is to listen to people who can show the arguement not those who just repeat what they say until you believe it.

M1

[CleverClogs]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

There is no irredeemable unenforceability since 2007

Not even if first one, then another debt purchaser fails over a period of six years to cobble together something that wacky Waksman J might call a "twue copy"?

[gravytrain]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Irredeemable unenforceablitty is only possible because enforcement has been halted due to a defect on the executed agreement/copy requirements via section 65.

Once halted the creditor must seek an enforcement order under section 127(1). Section 127(3-5) prevents this if certain items are not contained within the executed agreement, there is no going back in time and altering this error, so it is game over

Unenforceability due to breach of section 77-79 works in an entirely different fashion, in that it stops the court commencing the enforcement process. The nature of the sanction is not specifically prescribed within the statute, it is a practice developed under common law.
This is why all the misunderstanding arose and why Rankine and co. got it so wrong.
This barr is lifted once the compliant copies are produced.

[d1ngle]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Thank you all for your responses here.

I'm going to dig out the 2002 CCA and post it up for you to look at.

So basically I can go for unenforceability on the 2011 loan, but if they produce the CCA at any point it become enforceable?

Have you or anyone ever had experience of a bank offering a loan without a signed CCA? I really can't even remember signing one and there is no way I'd have thrown my copy away (and I don;t have one).

Thanks again

D

[gravytrain]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Thank you all for your responses here.

I'm going to dig out the 2002 CCA and post it up for you to look at.

So basically I can go for unenforceability on the 2011 loan, but if they produce the CCA at any point it become enforceable?

Have you or anyone ever had experience of a bank offering a loan without a signed CCA? I really can't even remember signing one and there is no way I'd have thrown my copy away (and I don;t have one).

Thanks again

D

The application wasn't done on line was it ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

The application wasn't done on line was it ?

If he is referring to the one from 2002 it wouldn't matter, would it? Because the Consumer Credit (Electronic Communications) Regulations 2004 allowing a tick box to replace the signature box on online applications didn't come into force until January 2005.

[gravytrain]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

If he is referring to the one from 2002 it wouldn't matter, would it? Because the Consumer Credit (Electronic Communications) Regulations 2004 allowing a tick box to replace the signature box on online applications didn't come into force until January 2005.

No i meant the 2011 one

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Unsure if CCA request has been fulfilled - one page and standard printed Ts&Cs??

Thank you all for your responses here.

I'm going to dig out the 2002 CCA and post it up for you to look at.

So basically I can go for unenforceability on the 2011 loan, but if they produce the CCA at any point it become enforceable?

Have you or anyone ever had experience of a bank offering a loan without a signed CCA? I really can't even remember signing one and there is no way I'd have thrown my copy away (and I don;t have one).

How did you apply for the loan? If you applied online, then you would have accepted the T&Cs by ticking the box and that would be as good as a signed agreement for anything applied for after Jan 2005. Did you apply over the phone? By post? Did they send you an application form that you filled in and returned? Was it a magazine advert? a leaflet? Or did you go into a branch? Banks are by no means perfect but it would be unusual for a bank not to require a signed agreement for a loan as recently as 2011 so you really need to remember how you applied for this, it could well be that the application form you signed had all the prescribed terms on it, also they are not very likely to have 'lost' or misplaced an agreement that's less than two years old, you really need to jog your memory here.