Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

thanks godzilla, i will get all the info for you asap.
I have to hand in the new defence by fri 5/11 4pm (not ideal, ive been careless and let other issues i have, take up my time when i shouldve been on this case more) at my local court.So i will start drafting it tomorrow/friday if people still think i have a case.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

I didnt collect the CCA at the local branch as i was advised that i shouldnt have to collect it, there wasnt any reason why they couldnt send it to my home address.Also they might ask me to sign for it to collect it from the branch, and i was advised not to do that either.

I didnt include the letter about collecting the CCA from the branch.

What is your train of thought with this please?

I cannot see any reason, as to why you could not collect the Section 77-79 CCA information from your local branch of Nationwide?

Nationwide, would simply request that you provide proof ID and that you sign for the document; they hold your signature on file but [emphasis added] signatures do vary over the years...

However, if you feel uncomfortable about collecting same from your local branch, write again and ask that the CCA information must be sent directly to the address that Nationwide hold on file in relation to you; your account with them.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Did you make any payments between the November DN and March, and then anything after March ? (ie trying to work out if the claim was for the arrears or full amount etc and whether the second DN is genuine or an attempt to mislead the court - have you got your statements/transaction lists) How much is the total claim for (excluding sols fee and court fee) ? How does that scan with what you think you owe ?



Ref the CCA - just your original defence was a bit ballhooks as they did comply with your cca request on first? attempt you just refused to pick it up from the branch. So thats not a point in your favour.

This paranoia about signatures and not collecting from branches is a bit mental tbh.

Has anyone ever actually had a forged CCA using their signature from a letter ? Or do the banks have your signature on file for your cards / bank accounts so really wouldnt need to use one of a cca request letter ?

(sorry but it annoys me people get pushed into poor defences because of paranoia)

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

To protect yourself and reduce the risk against your home I would enter an admission and offer to pay - your original defence was based on not having received the CCA (which you had had sent to the branch for collection) The DN area can be looked at but I still don't get where that gets you other than the court not enforcing this time and you having to start over with a repayment arrangement and wait for them to take you to court again to secure the payments, and in the present climate it is more likely it would be allowed.

You had an offer from them for a settlement of £1600 which you could have paid, but chose not to in favour of defending. (I doubt that would come up in court as it is probably without prejudice but it is a risk it may do)

If you didnt believe you owed the debt then it would be different.

I think you have a good opportunity to backtrack from the 'embarrassed' defence now, mitigate your losses, get your offer to pay in based on your CCCS payments (which you should get started up again) ask for a hold on interes and installments from the court, or even negotiate back to that £1600 settlement (if you still have the funds available to you) directly with Nationwide.

That is just my opinion, and others may have more technical arguments about the default notices, but the agreement is sound, they have corrected the DN and the original didnt cause detriment (ie if the original had been correct would you have paid it up and continued with the contract under the original agreed terms? answer to that would be no as you were on the DMP and they didnt take action till two months after the date for remedy)


Costs wise if you continued and lost then people have been anywhere from £500 to £16000 (depending on how much the claim was against them, the track the claim was in, and how far along the case went before being chucked out).

Still want to know the answers to the Q's about the arrears amounts and payments around the DN's though, but from what you have said in pm and on here, I think it was a bit of a whim try it on defence hoping they would give up and you just want it out of your hair and back on the payment arrangement ? (If I'm wrong just thump me ok and we'll get back to looking at technicalities)

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Also, just saw on MSE theres £1000 of charges on the account ? If so you can try defend those, or use those to get the £1600 offer back on the table.


Also see you mention you posted on Niddys site last night - I cant see it have you a link pls (s'ok found it, no response so far)

[Angry Cat]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

On my mse thread around post 70, i was being asked about the termination letter.But i never received one/couldnt find it ( im sure i would still have it).There was also no termination letter sent with the SAR i made.

Has the agreement actually been terminated?

[Caspar]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

I never claim to be an expert on these things, but what Ame has just written seems to make a lot of common sense to me.

I admire you for fighting for so long, but realistically from what I've read the debt is unlikely to get written off for reasons stated above.

I'd be very happy for you if someone contradicts me and proves to be right but Ame seems to have stated alot of sense to me.

Good luck anyway!

David
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Has the agreement actually been terminated?

I believe it states it was terminated with the first DN?

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

thanks for the replies guys, just a quick not to say im online and going to answer all the questions.

What is everyones opinion on the account actually being terminated? as per "angry cats" post.I never received a termination letter.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Having read their LBA now (over on MSE) its pretty certain they will be trying for a charging order - so if you can negotiate the £1600 (tho it says £1700 over there) then I'd do that, otherwise have a read on the insolvency site about Charging Orders to help quell any fears you may have about them.

As I said loads of times and I know its just my experience, I have a CCJ with HFC for my CCCS installment amount and a Charging Order to secure it, have paid via CCCS monthly for 4 years without any problems and the CO is just sitting there for when the house is sold then the remaining balance will be repaid.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Not even from KPR ? (ref the termination letter)

I really dont think the termination letter is a massive deal.

I would like to know what the arrears/outstanding balance/status of the account is now tho.

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Here is some more information which will hopefully answer some of the questions:-

6/11/09 i received my first default notice.It didnt ask for the arrears to be paid.Only the full balance of £3,301.31 which is the correct full amount as of the time.The default notice is laid out in exactly the same format as the one i was defending dated 16/11/09 which is in the link below.

On the same day i received a letter stating that the account was underpaid by £166.78 (must be the arrears amount).The letter goes on to say that they have defaulted the account and the DN is included with the letter.

16/11/09 this is the 2nd default notice (the one i was defending) which has now risen by £12 (a fee?? not mentioned anywhere,didnt receive any letters about it) to £3,313.31.The DN dosent mention any arrears amount to be paid again, just the full balance.

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...te/IMGedit.jpg

I would also like to point out tha,t shouldnt the dn give a date to pay the amount by, as 14 days from the date of the notice dosent allow for postal?

Again it was accompied by a letter with the same underpaid amount of £166.78, mentioning that they have included the default notice.

A few days later i received a letter asking if i needed help which they could provide.The amount has now risen to £3,385.23 after 2 £12.00 fees and interest charges The new amount due / arrears is £266.63...i think the interest charges are added to the account from the previous statement date of 20/10, but they added further £12 charges after the 6/11 dn...can they do this?

Another few days later and i have a letter saying they are instructing KPR (DCA) to recover the debt and it may lead to a ccj.(no termination letter though)

I then received various threatning letters from KPR.In the meantime i made further payments of :- £25.91 , £26.03 , £26.03.

My last statement i received on 1/3/10 had minimum payment due of £593.12.
Balance was £3,331.26

The last letter i received asking for arrears and not the full amount (kpr only ever asked for full amount in letters) was 21/12/09 for £342.27.

£3,331.26 is the amount on the first poc but they have also added £264.00 in fees.taking the total to £3,439.26.

I dont believe i made any further payments to the account after 24/2/10.

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

More info:-

The new default notice was issued on 11/5/10.The full balance is now £3,305.23 (£8.08 less than before?!?) and they have now put the overdue minimum payment amount as £666.24 (dont know why this amount?!?) ie. the amount to clear to rectify the default notice:-

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...pute/IMG-2.jpg

I will now try and figure out why the amount is £666.24

thanks for all the help again guys, i will keep answering the questions as soon as i get them.

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

There is no termination letter from KPR, unless one which has a headline of FINAL NOTICE counts as one.
Just seen your latest post, i hope i have all the figures you need now, apart from how they reach the figure of £666.24.

I am now more clear about what a charging order is, but i guess that if i could reach a settlement it would be better all round (thats if this defence is no longer worth it).

[ricky balboa]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

Another bit of info i would like to point out is the following letter which accompanied the new default notice:-

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/x...pute/IMG-3.jpg

It states that the new default notice will not change the amount that i owe under the nationwide cca.But the amount has changed as per the post i previously wrote.

It also states that if i act on this default notice and pay the arrears they will not terminate the account....isnt this implying that the account isnt terminated then?

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Defence against Nationwide!

On the same day i received a letter stating that the account was underpaid by £166.78 (must be the arrears amount).The letter goes on to say that they have defaulted the account and the DN is included with the letter.

Do you have this letter still ?

that may serve as a termination under the contractual term.