Probate Power Of Attorney problems

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Can someone maybe tell me what the above means?

[des8]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

I have just recieved this in an email from the estate solicitors.

Thank you for your email of the 15th instant. I have forwarded the original Grant of Letters of Administration to the 'Name of city' District Probate Registry and confirmed that Mr 'Brothers name' wishes to remain as personal representative on the grant stamp.

Don't have a clue why they should be doing that unless your solicitor who was appointed co PR has renounced his position. Your bros' solicitor is just reinforcing your bros position.

I don't think it would harm your position to send to the appropriate probate office your PA1, plus a letter telling them your CAP-A5C will follow asap.
Explain briefly that you are replacing solicitor xyz (who was acting on your behalf) as PR, and in the meantimeyou wish to put a caveat on (if that is possible) and enclose the appropriate documentation.


Regarding an earlier comment from a solicitor that any court action will involve barristers and be expensive: yes, general advice is avoid contentious litigation because of the costs as invariably solcitors and barristers are necessary.
However you can obtain court order for a PR to produce an accounting without the use of lawyers.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Thank you for your advice 'des8' as always, very much appreciated. I was hoping to here from @Peridot before doing anything.
I wrote a rather long reply to your post on my mobile phone, however it didn't post due to the token apparently expiring.
Not anyone's fault other than my own. :-( The reply was lost. So here I goes again.

This is a brief outline of the relationship I have had with the estate solicitor hired by my brother:
I am going to refer to the (the estate solicitor) as 'She', in this post for the sake of brevity.
I am also going to refer to my first personal solicitor as 'POA'.
My second personal solicitor as 'My Second solicitor'

After I hired the solicitor that was to act as my POA I didn't communicate with 'She', as prior communication with 'She' had been ridiculously tardy and quite difficult. So I left all communication up to my POA solicitor. However after I fired my POA solicitor and paid his £5,000.00 fee (This releasing of my POA 'She' was carbon copied in on, and made totally aware of) my POA fired for evidently being disinterested in challenging my brother and my brothers railroading of the estate and seemingly just interested in my money.
I tried to communicate with 'She' by email. 'She' informed me via email that I needed to get a solicitor seemingly in order to communicate with her. Evidently 'She' didn't deem me worthy of direct communication.
So I had to hire 'My Second solicitor' who believed it was prudent to keep the original POA solicitors name on the 'Grant of Probate', and she made some kind of agreement with him to keep him on the back burner, just to sign off on the sale of the house. Apparently when the time came for my former POA to sign off on the house, he could not be found or contacted. However the house was somehow sold.
I asked 'My Second solicitor' via email on a couple of occasions "Was my former POA ever tracked down?" She never addressed those querries of mine. This was to later be one of my many reasons for firing her.
I decided I was going to have to drop my life in the USA and move back to the UK in order to deal with matters myself.
When I first got back to the UK in October 2016, I visited 'She's' office and was politely turned away on the grounds that the was a 'Conflict of Interest', as my POA's name was still on the 'Grant of Authority'.
I communicated with my 'My Second solicitor' and she said that the was no conflict of Interest. I also communicated with the Citizens Advice Bureau, who informed me that 'She; had a legal obligation to communicate with all members of the estate. My name is actually on the 'Grant of Administration'. "My 'POA's name and address' for the use and benefit of 'My Name' limited until further representation be granted."
I fired 'My Second solicitor' late December and paid her £5,000.00 fee again Carbon copying in 'She', making her aware that I'd released my second solicitor.
I visited the local Probate office and they suggested that I go to 'She's' office, and ask for the original copy of the 'Grant of Administration', and if they wouldn't give it to me, then I was to record their reasoning.
Instead of visiting 'She's' office unannounced , I sent her an email on the 15th of January requesting this document, no reply came back, so the following week I visited the office in person. This is explained in one of my earlier posts. 'She' was apparently too busy to see me and I got her assistant. Her assistant wanted my ID which she photo copied and explained to me that the 'Grant was being sent by them to the Probate office the following week and my brother was going to be made administrator. This I balked at, and the assistant claimed she might of got it wrong, That we were actually/maybe to be both made Executors. A few days later Thursday 26th of Jan 2017 'She' called me about 4.50PM on the phone and left a message. That 'She' was going to call the following morning. I waited all morning, and all day for the call. It didn't come. The following Monday I get an email from one of 'She's' assistants that the 'Grant of Administration' has been sent to Probate.

------------------------------------------

My email sent to 'She' January 15th 2017 (Names edited for privacy purposes)

Dear Ms She,

I have been in communication with the Local Probate office and have been informed by the personnel working at that office, that I should attempt to acquire the ORIGINAL 'Letters of administration' from 'She' solicitors. (Those same 'Letters of administration', apparently are no longer valid, due to the fact that POA my former Power of Attorney whose name was used on those documents, is no longer in my hire, and therefore makes that said document invalid). As it is, my name is and has been mentioned on the above requested document in this capacity "for the use and benefit of 'My Name' limited until further representation be granted."

If I might take possession of those documents, I will see to it that 'POA's name is removed from the
'Letters of administration', by reprocessing the 'Grant of administration' at the Liverpool Probate office. This hopefully further advancing the estate.

As it is, it seems the **** rd, property, that my brother is living in, has been allowed to become somewhat run down, as no due care and maintenance has been applied to the property. This I am investigating, as to who is responsible for these matters, as this factor has seemingly decreased the properties market value.

Which may be in my brothers/adversaries interests but not mine. As it is he, that wishes to purchase the property.

My brother and I have corresponded a little in the past weeks, as I am also trying to establish the gross property rental rate at which the **** rd flat/apartment was being rented to him for. Not the Local Borough Councils subsidy and rental assistance figures, that were earlier submitted as evidence of property rent.

I have requested of him, that he allow me permission to access and view the Local Borough Council archived copies of his lease, or the letter from his landlord or whatever documentation they deemed fit to establish and evaluate his welfare rental assistance arrangement. He seems to be rather disinterested and dismissive in respects to making this information available to me. So I am further inquiring on my legal rights as to the transparency of information that must be made available by joint administrators pertaining to probate holdings.

The was mention by his former solicitor at ******, of a 'rent book' for the ****** rd property, that was being held by 'She's' law firm', however I'm not sure if I could accept this as viable evidence of the rate of rent, as this kind of document could be easily manipulated and forged. I'd have to take a look at it and evaluate it for myself. If it does indeed exist?

The rent in arrears that has accumulated since the passing of our mother, and has not been collected by anyone, despite the fact that my brother has been also accepting Local Borough Council rental welfare housing subsidy payments, has amassed to quite a large sum over these years. This sum I am aware will be addressed when the time comes to divide the holdings. However we need to come up with an acceptable and interdependently validated rental sum. This I am working on.
Again, if you could please make available to me the Original stamped 'Grant of administration', then I will see to it that the document is corrected. Please let me know if and when I might pick up these documents. Thank You.

Yours Sincerely
My Name:

My Email: me@yahoo.com
My Mobile phone: 0795 *** ****
My address.

-----------------------------------------------------

'She's' 30th of January 2017 reply to me here: (Names edited for privacy purposes)


Dear Mr Me
Thank you for your email of the 15^th instant. I have forwarded the original Grant of Letters of Administration to the Local District Probate Registry and confirmed that Mr 'My Brother' wishes to remain as personal representative on the grant stamp
With regards to the Estate property, I regret that I cannot comment on this at all. It would be a clear conflict of interest given that I am dealing with the administration of the estate on behalf of both personal representatives.
Kind regards

----------------------------------------------------

My 30th of January 2017 reply to 'She':

Thank you for the reply you sent on and I received on the 30th of January 2017, to the email inquiries I sent to 'She' via email on the 15th of Jan 2017. Please can you inform me as to how I 'Mr 'Me' have been represented on this Grant that has been sent to Local District probate office? Have you addressed the fact that my former Power Of Attorney, is no longer being instructed by me? And his name should be removed and replaced 'by my own' 'Me' representing myself.
You seem a little vague on this matter. Or is my brother to be the only name on the Grant as personal representative?
Thank you.

----------------------------------------------------

I've edited the above several times to try and make it as clear and consise as possible. Law is not my area of knowledge and my job doesn't normally entail a lot of writing. So explaing myself in text is not my greatest asset. Thank you for bearing with me.

Any advice and suggestions from anyone at Legalbeagles is greatly appreciated, and will be thought through before being considered and possibly acted upon. Again Thank you.

[des8]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

As I write this @ 12.20 I note that [MENTION=85500]Peridot[/MENTION] is now on line, hopefully scanning through her alerts and will be able to assist.
I'll pop back in later to see

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Hi Paddyhaig,
Blimey, I'm as confused as Des8 over some of the events. What a nightmare for you.
Initially I was thinking how you would revoke the original POA and wondering what the words were on that, which would indicate exactly what the previous solicitor was allowed to do as your attorney. It would appear that things have moved on since then with the indication that your brother's solicitor is/has applied to an amendment to the Grant of Administration already.
A Caveat would only prevent the Grant being made which would appear inappropriate at this stage as it appears that a Grant has already been granted.
I would usually have said that it was a good thing that your brother had instructed solicitors to deal with the obtaining of the Grant of Administration as they would have to ensure matters were dealt with correctly, even though under your brother's instruction. They would have at least pointed out his duties as administrator with regards to the estate and also the division of the estate under the intestacy rules. There does however appear to be significant confusion, due in part to the appointment of an attorney on your behalf. I wonder whether the solicitor 'she' had been dealing with the attorney you appointed but who would not deal once you had did-instructed them so matters did not progress. That may be why they are now applying to get the attorney removed? This seems to be bourne out by the comments that you were delaying matters, but if they could get no joy from the 'attorney' despite their duties, it may be the reason. In order to close accounts, sell property, shares etc they would need the administrators signatures on forms so on the basis of the Grant in this instance, your brother and your attorney. If the attorney is refusing this will delay matters significantly.

As far as getting the Grant amended I don't know why they have not asked for an amendment for you both to be administrators? You appear to indicate that you don't mind if only your brother is the administrator, I assume provided he has solicitors acting on his behalf?
It may be that you need to contact the first solicitor and see whether they are aware of the application to change the Grant? But this may be immaterial if they have already applied and succeeded in the application.

I am sure that you are aware under the intestacy rules, if there is no surviving spouse then the estate would be divided equally between the children. Is it just you and your brother? As a residuary beneficiary then you would be entitled to information concerning the estate accounts, for which there should be an interim set at this stage or at least copies of the IHT forms that were sent. They could not have obtained the Grant without dealing with any IHT due or confirming that none was due. In due course you are entitled to information concerning the value of the estate and it is good practice for the solicitors to provide accounts to all residuary beneficiaries. The solicitors have a duty to the beneficiaries in addition to the administrator instructing them.

As far as the assets go, I don't know of a solicitor that would recommend using ebay to sell all items as this would take far longer usually and would cost a significant amounts in further legal time spent. I am not saying that people can't do this with estate assets but with the information you provided about your brother, would you have trusted him to do this or would you have had the time yourself to upload everything and deal. It isn't always a practical solution. In addition I would point out that generally our 'stuff' is worth far less than we anticipate. In practice, we would generally obtain an auctioneers valuation, having looked at the property and contents. The valuations are often far less than individuals anticipate as prices achieved are so reliant on what is 'fashionable' etc at the time. The specific items that you believed existed, may have been lost/given away some time ago, unless you have reason to know that not to be the case. In any event, unless they were of significant value it may not be worth wasting time and effort trying to unpick what happened at this stage. I appreciate this is difficult when we have connections to things but holding onto those thoughts and pursuing them can increase costs in time and money significantly and you won't always achieve what you want in locating the item anyway.

I would recommend that you obtain some face to face advice from a contested probate specialist who is a litigator, regarding how to get your name on the Grant, if that is what you want? Or you leave your brother's solicitor to deal once they have the amended Grant.

Sorry this may not be what you want to hear. It seems a huge amount of time and money has already been spent with little to show for it so far. It is weighing up the cost of the fight against the cost and time of finalising the estate with solicitors acting on behalf of the administrators. It may be worth speaking to your brother's solicitors to see if the problem was with the attorney not signing docs due to your did-instruction and to also check that they are instructed to deal with the estate administration. Which at least could hopefully reassure you that your brother is being 'controlled' to a certain extent. They are obviously aware the estate is to be divided between you and if they are dealing then this should be done.

Any claim against the estate would have to be done within 6 mths of the Grant which may have passed already. A contested probate specialist could point you in the right direction for the application necessary to amend the Grant if it was possible, but bearing in mind the considerable sums you have already spent and for the likely reasons above regarding the delays and the attorney appointment, I think it would be well worth considering whether to try and speak to 'she.' You are a residuary beneficiary, there is not a conflict although you are not the client and can not instruct 'she' what to do. If she is at a Law Firm and qualified then she has a duty to deal with the estate correctly, which hopefully allays some of your fears about your brothers shenanigans. It may be that you have to let some of the issue go or risk using any inheritance that may be coming, being significantly depleted due to legal fees.

I hope I have understood the situation correctly and that some of my comments are helpful, if a little frustrating.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Firstly Thank you very much Ms Peridot for pondering my dilema. In all honesty I am seemingly just as confused as I was earlier. However, I should point out some of the issues I was up against. Sadly my brother is by default dishonest, a registered heroin addict for over 35 years prescribed NHS Welfare supplied heroin substiture (Methadone) and whatever other free drugs he can aquire. I have good reason to believe street market drugs on top. He's had certainly one term in Prison, and has worked probably a maximum of 5 years gainful employment in his 49 years. He has a crocodile tear act that is worthy of an Oscar, that he often brags about. I've had to check every detail of his claims in any way I can, often at great expense to myself. I had to pull the ambulance report on my mothers passing to verify my mother died of natural causes. I also know the once the was a Last Will and Testement, however he couldn't seem to find it. (I dare say our mother didn't register it.) Although interestingly enough, he built a small furnace around the back of our parents house to dispose of private papers supposedly.
My guess is, he's taken liberties with a number of chatels, one of which was an antique Persian rug with a value of, if Ebay is anything to go bye somewhere in the region of £12,000.00. He made the mistake of having this rug in the backdrop of a photo of our mothers Stocks and Shares.
That rug was mine, stored at our parents house. I explained this to the second solicitor I hired, who asked my brother about my rug, he repied, what size rug? Basicaly dragging out any form of inquiry at my expense. He no longer has a personal solicitor, only the solicitor 'She' (Not to sound sexist, just a way of abreviating her title) She has seemingly been quite available to him and often quite difficult with me. The rug matter was not so much about the specific rug but about my brothers integrity on the whole. The are so many chatels not listed. I wouldn't know where to start. I had to personally pay for my own property valuation incase he influenced the official quote on the property he is intersted in buying. I've also had to personally pay for a Last Will and Testament search. That as yet, has not come in. I wish I could be more trusting however I wouldn't leave my brother with a locked safe. I'm not altogether sure if I can communicate with the POA solicitor, certainly he would have to let me know if he was still seemingly working on my behalf? Wouldn't he have an obligation to do this?
I dare say that my brother has pushed for a holding up of the estate clause rather than be questioned any further. Certainly since I am back in the country. The is no family quality between us, other than me inviting him over to the States on numerous occasions to clean up. After my father died, two years prior to my mother, my mother struggled to get rent out of my brother. And would often phone me in the States quite distraught. I in turn would phone my brother, who simply decided to stop taking my call's. Anyway's really not sure what exactly to do next? I do very much apreciate your assistance in alieving this misery.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

The property factor is due to him living in a flat purchased by our father as much to get him out of the family home as much as anything. Anything tied down could easily go missing when he was there, however my father would assure me that the items I'd left stored with them were safe. My mother also claimed my possessions would be fine. However my brother in an almost pychotic manner in one particular phone conversation had blurted out of left field, that the flat was his! It wasn't even in our conversation, and nor had we ever talked about it. This was one of our last conversations I believe. He'd apparently badgered and bullied our mother to sign the flat over to him, to the point that she would call me quite distraught. And I have to try and calm her. I'd even had to get Social Services involved. Everything he does has to be questioned relentlesly. I know I should probably just take my money and wash my hands of him. However it's hard. My mother had repeatedly asked me to look after him in our phone conversations. Not much can be done now, I think. Heck, I'm quite possibly gonna end up with nothing from our parents estate the way things are looking.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

The other property being our parents house which was sold. Although I'm not sure if my POA signed in lieu of me. I will check tomorrow, although I cant imagine he'll be too enamoured to see me after the Legal Ombudsman finding his firm guilty of matters of professional ethics. Although I didn't persue the LO matter any further at the time. Prefering to address it further at a later date, when the estate matters have been addressed.
My problem with dealing with UK solicitors is that I'm pretty jaded now, and can't really afford to pay up front anymore. If my brother were to become sole Personal Representative, then who would he have to account to, and what would be involved in calling him to account. As he has an uncanny ability to engineer matters his way and offer evidence that he see's fit, despite what might be asked of him. Chasing £20 -30,000.00 that he's defrauded from the estate may cost more to recover than matters are worth. Is this the state of present UK law? I have to ask? Everyone is saying, in the UK, first over the threshold takes the cake unless a Will is registered in the UK. :-(

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Hi Paddyhaig,
It's horrible, we make promises to those we care about not really expecting the worst case scenarios which can happen and then you're just left thinking how on earth can I fulfil a promise to someone when the goal posts have changed so much.

I am at a loss, as I am sure you are really, other than seeking another solicitor to unpick everything again, but this obviously takes significant time and money. It isn't right and you do wonder what story he has spun 'she' as the solicitor instructed. Unfortunately speculating doesn't achieve much.

If you decide to do one last round of advice I would suggest preparing a timeline and bullet points of events, trying to be objective. It's hard as it is all emotive stuff, but maybe you could get a free half hour or reduced fee hour advice session just to look at the options and the likely cost of pursuing further now. I would say this needs to be done really quite quickly as this new application may well being dealt with already and waiting a while before acting wouldn't be favourable.
We're here for support if needs be.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

How detailed should I make this? 'timeline and bullet points of events,'

Example:

Time line of bullet points as suggested by 'Peridot' of 'LegalBeagles.info'

• Mother passes October 10^th 2013. I am living in North Carolina, USA. My Brother call's me on the phone whilst I am working to tell me quite briefly that our mother has passed. He won't take any return call's any from me. He hasn't been since a couple of months after our father passing a year before.
  
  
• I email my brother to find out what is going on? He makes up seemingly varying excuses about all his contact phones not working.
  Including the phone that our mother and I had often chatting on.
  
  
• He Informs me via email that he's been to see a solicitor, A 'She' of 'She law firm' that offers a monetary advances on estates for those not in a position to pay for a funeral. I tell him that I don't want 'She', however he still goes ahead with the appointment, He gives me a time and date to call in. I call in, from the USA to the UK. I assume the receptionist takes my call, put's me on hold and then the line goes dead. I call in again and get a female voice, I give my name and the line goes dead again. I try again, same thing again only a male voice, I give up. I feel like they are hanging up on me.
  
  
• 'She' contacts me via email. Wanting copies of my ID and information pertaining to my place of residence. My UK passport at the time was expired and my US driving license address was also wrong as I was in a State of flux after moving from Louisiana to North Carolina for work. I was keeping my options of moving back to Louisiana open.
  
  
• I found communication with 'She' to be very slow and got the distinct feeling that she was looking after my brothers interests primarily and was simply coming up with obstacles where I was concerned. She had apparently instructed my brother to just send me reports. And to start selling off the estate. My brothers reports although quite verbose were often quite vague as to where the monies were going.
  

[des8]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

One further item for consideration:
You have obtained a copy of the grant of representation which would include the gross and net value of the estate.
From that can you see if it includes the flat that was made over to your brother a couple of years ago?
If he is as you describe he may easily have "forgotten" to declare the gift to HMRC and down the line they may come knocking for unpaid IHT!

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

An earlier valuation was made on the flat. That figure was I believe used for the tax filing. All the tax forms were prosesed by the estate solicitor.

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Hi again,
Good start on your timeline. It could be even more to the point, for example:-
Mum passed away 10/10/13, contacted by brother as working in States at time.
E-mailed(date) by brother told he is appointing 'she', disagreed, brother reluctant to engage in further communication, ignoring calls etc. Brother has had an addiction problem for last 35 years and relations always been difficult, so happy for solicitors to be involved but wanted a say in who (or words to the effect of)
My ID not accepted by firm (change of address issue)
Instructed own solicitor and gave POA to them to sign docs (or whatever wording on POA was)
Aware brother dealing with some assets but not recording correctly or providing accurate information on the asset values
Grant obtained XX/XX/XX
etc

I appreciate it is really hard to keep the emotional responses to a minimum, but to be the best use of your time in a limited appointment, if possible, it really needs to be down to the bare bone facts. I hope this helps.

Des8's comment about the flat is relevant and may be worth pointing out.
I have just received an e-mail notification that you've posted again whilst writing this, so will post and return if needs be.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Can someone possibly please explain to me the obligations of a 'Personal Representative' on a 'Grant of Administration'. I'm hitting a lot of wall's, and I'm lawyer shy now, due to a number of poor experiences. I've looked at a number of Youtube vids and Websites, however I'm still not sure, if a Personal Representative has any legal obligation to other members of the estate? And what those obligations are? If my brother were to become the only 'Personal Representative' on the Grant of Representation. Does that mean the Estate is his, to do as he pleases? Or does he still have an obligation to make sure everything is divided equally? Facts and figures he may be called to account for later?

[Peridot]

Re: Probate Power Of Attorney problems

Ok just read and looks like the flat was dealt with in estate accounts. Provided the valuation office don't question the value placed in the IHT forms should be ok. If not don't panic it can be sorted.