Fixed Penalty notice help please **SETTLED**

[argentarius]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

One would expect the person taking the name and address of the guilty party to request some evidence of identity, as otherwise they are incredibly likely to get people giving false details as appears to have occurred in this case.

I trust that the OP's problem will go away as it will be impossible for the council to provide any supporting evidence of her husband's involvement in the offence.

[Paule]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

One would expect the person taking the name and address of the guilty party to request some evidence of identity, as otherwise they are incredibly likely to get people giving false details as appears to have occurred in this case.

How many people actaully carry id with them at all times.
You'd be surprised, and even if they did in this instance they have no power to demand any proof by means of a search or detention.

So False names ahoy it is...

[Guest]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

One would expect the person taking the name and address of the guilty party to request some evidence of identity, as otherwise they are incredibly likely to get people giving false details as appears to have occurred in this case.

I trust that the OP's problem will go away as it will be impossible for the council to provide any supporting evidence of her husband's involvement in the offence.

The notice seems to suggest that the person who threw the cigarette out of the window was already known to "9975 an Authorised Officer if Nottingham City Council" as the circumstances that constitute the alleged offence are that it occurred as the car was being driven. There is no indication that any form of ID was sought, much less provided. Quite how they expect to be able to enforce this is beyond me.

A motorist was recently in court for scratching his ear because the police officer thought he was on the phone, yet there was no phone involved. The police refused to check the call records on the phone. The case went to court and fortunately the records of the phone company were produced, and the driver exonerated as it was proved he was not on the phone.

Of course, you could still end up with costs, as an innocent defendant who fails to inform the police of exculpatory evidence at the "earliest possible" opportunity and was subsequently charged and acquitted due to this evidence could expect to pay some, if not all of the costs of the prosecution.

[jet_black]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

I imagine we will get some sort of reply sometime next week, I'll let you know what happens....

[Guest]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

According to the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 and the explanatory notes and my reading of it, a fixed penalty notice, as it says on the example you posted, is a 'Notice of Opportunity to pay a fixed penalty'. In other words, you may pay the penalty and that will be the end of it, but if you do not pay the penalty the council may summons you for the offence - it cannot demand that you pay the fixed penalty.

So although you cannot contest a fixed penalty as such, you can refuse to pay it and go to court. It would be interesting to hear whether a solicitor would agree with that interpretation.

Further, it states on the notice "I 9975...etc ...have reason to believe..."

This is a bit like say "I have reason to believe you ate breakfast this morning" There is a strong likelihood you did, but I cannot prove it without further information.

This is simply not sufficient.

I know you have written already and I would be interested to see what they come back with, in particular as you can prove that your husband was not where that "Notice of opportunity to pay..." places him.

As Blair pointed out, this nonsense of court hearings and trials and the presumption of innocence is all old hat - what he wanted was summary justice!

The way it works now is to demand payment of fixed penalties without proper procedures or evidence, knowing that few victims have the knowledge, the time or the money to go to court over minor amounts.

[jet_black]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

We haven't heard a peep out of them ........yet

We have already stated that we would be more than happy to go to court if necessary. I would imagine it would earn them a slap on the wrist for time wasting:tinysmile_twink_t:

[Guest]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

We haven't heard a peep out of them ........yet

We have already stated that we would be more than happy to go to court if necessary. I would imagine it would earn them a slap on the wrist for time wasting:tinysmile_twink_t:

I would strongly suggest that if you were forced to attend court over this that you inform them in writing that you will be seeking costs and damages as you gave them the opportunity to correct their officer's error.

[jet_black]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

nothing new to report yet......

[jet_black]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

Right, we have finally received a reply from these clowns...

"I can confirm that further investigations are being carried out with regards to the issues you have raised in your letter. We will therefore be in touch again shortly with a more comprehensive response once these investigations are complete."

I can't wait to hear what they have to say for themselves......

[Amethyst]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

move in the right direction then - excellent

[Amy]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

Right, we have finally received a reply from these clowns...

"I can confirm that further investigations are being carried out with regards to the issues you have raised in your letter. We will therefore be in touch again shortly with a more comprehensive response once these investigations are complete."

I can't wait to hear what they have to say for themselves......

Code for "Oh ********" then?

[StoneLaughter]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

Next thing is to get a description of "the offender", and a list of the identity documents they produced. Of which I bet they have neither. It's completely laughable.

[jet_black]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

I cannot believe it! They are continuing to pursue this!!!

[Paule]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

Well you have the proof that they want

my husband was at work and there are about 15-20 other people who can vouch for him. His place of work is a school in the next county to where the alleged offence took place.

I would get these people to write a statement confirming your husbands presence, prefarlably get it done to the Schools headed paper to add some weight.

PKea

[Amy]

Re: Fixed Penalty notice help please

So they still have not given you any proof, just more hearsay:-

"you were observed by the Community Protection Officer deposit a cigarette end out the drivers side window"

They cannnot even write it correctly, yet they expect you to trust that they have got the correct person.

I would write back and tell them I'll see them in court.