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Pedro v RBS re-possesion

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  • Pedro v RBS re-possesion

    The RBS are taking me to court to re-posses my house and I don’t know which way to turn, It’s a desperate situation for me and I hope you can help.



    Up until October 1998 I was a staff nurse at a Accident and Emergency unit….I had been there 5 year however in 1998 my brother and sister in law were selling their small 6 bedded Care Home as they were both retiring……it was just a small bungalow with extension.

    So during that year I approached the RBS with my business proposition etc, and wheels were set in motion for me to take over the Care Home and the RBS would be my partners
    I therefore was being guided by staff from the RBS………….they appeared helpful and they guided me ………….and in Oct 1998 I took out a business loan with RBS for £135,000.

    This loan was to be paid back over 15 yr interest only of £1200/month and an endowment policy of £600/month.
    As part of the endowment they sold me I was supposedly covered for Critical illness and disability cover with a 6 month deferment period, and some sort of payment protection plan.

    This policy was sold to me by the Royal Bank of Scotland and it was with the Royal Scottish Assurance (their insurance company).

    For 8 year from 1998 to 2006 I was fit and well, I had been fortunate enough to have good health, as indeed I had always been fortunate enough to always have been in employment.


    All was well until November 2006 my health took a nose dive and went downhill. I was taken ill in the early hours while in bed………Breathless, sweaty, heavy chest pain, pain in jaw, a ambulance was called and all was not well.

    I was taken to my old place of work into the resus area……….and within 10 mins I had a cardiac arrest…………………I had to be shocked back to life, strangely enough I knew it was going to happen………don’t know why……….but I remember telling a lad I used to work with as they were giving IV medication to slow my heart down……..”well if it doesn’t work thanks for trying anyway” ………..now I don’t know where I went but it was peaceful, comfy and warm………………..Anyway as it happened I was shocked back to life……….coincidently the Sister who defibed me back to life used to be mentored by me when she was a student nurse in A&E…………coincidental of what?


    I had what I thought to be a “heart attack”. I had a cardiac arrest and had to be ,I was in hospital for 3 week and eventually diagnosed with Cardiomyopathy.

    Feb 2007 I claimed under my critical illness cover for a “heart attack” however the claim was disputed by RSA, for many different reason, and they used different policy “definitions” etc…….anyway to cut a long story short they weren’t paying.
    I took their decision to the Financial Ombudsman. And the Ombudsman sided with the RSA, I was shocked by this………….anyway I thought well …………‘I can claim under my disability cover’ this cover was the “peace of mind” that would pay Interest charges, premiums and part of my income if I ever became to ill to work.

    So in April 2007 I claimed for waiver of payments under disability cover as I had been unfit to work now for 6 month +, and had a further Drs Note for another 6 month.

    I continued paying my £1200 interest payments and my £600 premiums, in the belief that once the disability claim was sorted these payments I had continued to pay would be refunded.
    However it was getting increasingly difficult to keep paying, I wasn’t earning any money and the bank was constantly on my back to maintain interest payments.
    I told the bank that the RSA should be paying, I had been paying my policy payments of £600/month, and I also reminded them that it was they the RBS who sold it me in the first place.
    They said I had to maintain payments until RSA had sorted it. I again reminded the RBS that it was they who sold it me, and that the RSA was part of the RBS………..and as such they should approach the RSA and sort it………..they made it clear that that was up to me.

    The RSA gave no explanation for not paying my interest/premium payments under my disability cover the bank wanted their monthly interest and I was left with no choice to cash in my endowment in order to maintain payments. I therefore wrote to the RBS, they in turn wrote to the RSA.

    It was now Oct 2007 I had been unfit for work for 11 month I had paid my interest/policy payments up to date.
    My critical illness dispute was still with the ombudsman and there was no payments made by the RSA under my disability claim.

    I was forced by the RBS to meet interest payments and the only way to meet their demands was to cash in my endowment policy.
    The cash in value of the endowment policy was approx £52,000 and over a period of 9½ years I had paid premiums of approx £65,000 so they made thousands out of me having to surrender……………..
    I approached the RBS to cash in the endowment , they in turn contacted their RSA and the RSA sent me this letter.




    Oct 22nd 2007
    Received from the RSA

    Dear Mr……….

    I am writing to you in reference to correspondence that we have received from the RBS on 22nd October 2007.

    We have received a request from the bank to surrender your policy under Power of sale. As you can understand, the surrender of this policy would have an impact upon your ongoing Critical Illness and disability claims, as well as your complaint case which is currently being dealt with by the Financial Ombudsman Service. I wanted to make sure you were aware of the implications that surrendering your policy would have on these matters.

    If you still wish to proceed with the surrender under the Power of Sale, please contact myself or any of our contact centre staff and let us know how you want to proceed. Alternatively you can write and inform us of you wishes.

    Should you have queries etc etc.

    Looking back I feel as though I have been bullied by the RBS/RSA almost as if one has knocked me down and the though it could kick me until I could take no more. They knew it was just a matter of time for me to be unable to make payments. They have kicked me from pillar to post and for the first time in my life found myself on anti-depressants in order to cope……………..well ive had enough of the bullying.

    Is it legal that they can say in effect? “Right Mr...... there will be some impact on your Critical illness dispute that is currently with the Ombudsman and there will also be some impact on your ongoing Disability claim if you surrender you endowment” how on earth am I supposed to keep paying £1800/month I had maintained payments for the last 11 month while ill.

    It is now March 2009 I have not been able to pay my Interest payment to the bank (9 month arrears) and they are now commencing court proceeding for re possession. The RSA should have been making payments under my disability cover they have offered no explanation as to why they haven’t,

    The Ombudsman found in favour of the RSA with regards to the Critical illness claim and although I still don’t agree with him.
    The RSA should have commenced paying my interest payments, premiums and part wages from 6 month after my illness under my disability cover and this is my main concern not the CI, disability cover was designed for my senario (I think)

    This disability cover should have protected me when I became ill………….I have been unable to work since Nov 2006 and I am currently retired due ill health at 52 yr old..and having to live on £62/week…………………..I have Cardiomyopathy and my health continues to deteriorate it will never get better it can only get progressively worse.I have a ICD fitted………..

    Now I know my case refers back a while, however if the RSA had played the game when I first applied for Disability cover interest payments May 2007 I wouldn’t be in this position now. I have copies of their/my detailed disability cover and all other relevant papers.
    Last edited by pedro; 28th April 2009, 13:16:PM.

  • #2
    Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

    Have you got a court date or have RBS only threatened so far?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

      no court date Cetelco, I have till this Tuesday to pay (which I cant), they will then "commence Possession proceedings.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

        this was really a business loan yes?

        I have not normally seen Endowment and PPI cover linked together.

        If you have been refused payment for CI and disabilty how did they claim that you were not covered? Existing condition? condition not covered by the policy?

        Was part of the £600 endowment and part PPI?
        "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

        "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

          scooby Yes is was a business loan, the property is now though my home (small bungalow)

          The CI was turned down as I didn't 'meet their definition for a heart attack', in actual fact I contested their decision 4 times and 4 times I got diferent reasons why I didn't meet their criteria.



          If I undestand you correctly yes I think the PPi was part of the endowment

          I was given (at the time 1998) a mortgage saving Plan booklet & Key Feature booklet.
          In these booklets it explains about CI etc and also Disability cover, 6 month waiver, must be taken out at the start of the plan etc.

          The reason NOW for refusing this disability cover, is because I cashed in my endowment. but at the time I applied no reason was ever given for none payment.

          Of course I had to cash it in to continue payments of £1200/month interest payments, and also because the bank were calling in my overdraft.

          The endowment was cashed in in December 2007 and until this time premiums were up to date, it was 6 month prior to this cashing in date that I applied for the "disability" cover waiver of payments thing in May 2007.

          So in effect I had paid premiums and interest for 11 month AFTER my illness............and as a matter of interest the cash in value was approx £15,000 less than I had actually paid in.

          Thanks Pedro

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

            This will take som research as it is a business mortgage but now your home - also the PPI angle .

            My initial thoughts are whether you were mis-sold the mortgage PPI cover in the first place ? It sounds like you were careful to cover all eventualities of taking out the loan and now feel badly let down. You took what seems like the correct insurances at the time - but did not have the cover you thought.

            You will have to think whether you can use that in your defence when you get the court papers.

            Will have read around.
            "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

            "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

              Don't know if this is of any use but this is a post from another case where the PPI was mis-sold and the poster ended up in court for possession


              "Hi Sorry have not been on line been really busy with work.
              Anyway just wanted to let you know how we got on in court.

              The judge was brilliant and was totally on our side about the PPI ,he adjourned the hearing until our solicitor has got all the info ready to present to him about the mis-selling of PPI.
              The solicitor for Blackhorse was totally lost for words and was not happy ,he said to the judge that he knew he was hot on mis-selling of PPI`s.

              The judge even said we did not not have to make payments to blackhorse unless we wanted to.

              He adjourned the hearing for 6 weeks and said he would put it in his personal diary to see him in 6 weeks time.


              The result was that twice more the case was adjourned as Blackhorse could not come up with the documents/evidence the poster required - then I think they made an out of court settlement which cleared the arrears( I am trying to get an update on that).The poster did have help from a solicitor for the wording in the defence as technically the arrears and the PPI was really two separate issues - however in the case the judge agreed that the arrears would not have occurred had the policy been valid- but the case was quite complicated.

              ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
              If you had of received the Disability claim - how long would it have paid out for ?

              When the FOS did not agree about the CI claim what did they say?

              The other point is that the endowment policy of £600 pm was supposed to repay the whole loan after 15 years? was that a case of mis-selling as well?

              Were you made to think you had no choice but to take out the recommended policy?

              Did you use the surrender value to pay off part of the mortgage?
              Last edited by scoobydoo; 26th April 2009, 15:16:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
              "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

              "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                You are right Scooby..............I do feel badly let down, for what it matters I have only ever claimed once before in my life for a Insurance claim, My car was stolen while I was at work and so I claimed - 1994.

                As for misselling....who knows?, to be honest I had forgot all about my policy while being ill........it's strange but I had a dream about it, so I asked MOH to fish it out and bring it into hospital, up until them it had been gathering dust, 4 yrs ago I broke my leg and was in pot for 3 month unable to work....I never claimed a penny...........I also had a broken Jaw after a accident.....never claimed a penny..........I was a fool.

                I remember at the time that this insurance thing was part of the loan,.......but then what did I know, I was a nurse not a finacial expert...but dont know if thats miselling etc.

                Thanks for taking time scooby.

                Pedro
                ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                scooby just read your next responce.............Solicitors...............I have given my story to many of them as set out in my initial post, some have repied saying I would need legal aid, and they dont do legal aid, some have just not repied and others have repied and said we cant act against the RBS.......dont know why they cant.

                I progressed to a local solicitor ,who I as far as I'm aware specialised in "cival litigation"......they offer legal aid..............but...not for cival litigation cases........crazy.

                Ta again Pedro
                Last edited by pedro; 26th April 2009, 15:49:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                  http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=16177


                  Have a look at this post



                  At the moment I think your first job is to gather ALL your paperwork in one very tidy file with all correspondence and copies of mortgage agreements etc. Have you ever sent an SAR to the bank or insurance company to find out exactly what was said to you when you took out the loan/ insurance?


                  Any one else out there with advice - should the poster just do SAR and ask in particular for all details of conversations etc about PPI and endowment?

                  Help?
                  ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                  Also can you write a clear - factual timeline of events and get your medical evidence together as well? just to keep in the file if you need it.
                  Last edited by scoobydoo; 26th April 2009, 15:52:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                  "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

                  "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                    By the way just wanted to say - just because you think you may have been mis-sold your loan or endowment does not mean that is the case . I am only speaking from the angle that if you risk loosing your home over this you only have two options- one is to try and gather evidence and put it before the court or try again with the FOS on a mis-selling angle .As I think you may find that time is limited and the FOS can take some time you may have no choice but to try for the first.

                    The reason I asked you about how long the Disability benefit would have paid out for is that you will need to set out what your position would be now at this period of time IF the policy would have paid out in the way you thought you were covered.

                    If you register an official complaint with the bank and the insurance company they will also have to deal with that in the proper way and provide you with evidence in writing of why they think you are incorrect.
                    "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

                    "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                      Scooby, Iv'e got all paper together including original key features of the Mortgage savings plan and mortgage agreements etc.

                      The only thing I haven't got is the "policy provision booklet" that would have been available back in 1998, because obviosly I knew nothing about it.

                      You know..... when I put my CI claim the RBS turned down my claim as it didn't meet a certain aspect of their criteria,(one of their reasons) ....................this criteria they sent me didn't even come out till 2002.........and of course their definitions have changed to make the "fences higher to jump" so to speak and they are allowed to get away with it....................anyway to cut it short -the CI claim was a waste of time.

                      I could go on forever about their definition for a "heart attack" both from my knowledge as a nurse and a patient/claimant .......how their definitions are suspect to say the least.

                      Add on..............it was over a 15 year period, I had been paying approx 9 year..............and it had a 6 month deferment period and it shoud have covered all Interest and policy premium payments up until maturity or my death (I think).

                      I was ill Nov 2006, applied for disability March 2007

                      ps.......what is a sar Scooby?

                      Ta
                      Pedro
                      Last edited by pedro; 26th April 2009, 16:26:PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                        SAR is a Subject Access Request.
                        Legal Beagles

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                          ok.......thanks Enaid do I need a SAR then?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                            This SAR may reveal any conversations that were had at the begining of the loan and how they advised you about the PPI

                            You can tailor it to find out any info you think you specifically need that you dont have .

                            You have to send £10.00 with the letter.

                            Keep posting and hopefully you may get some more advise as I am not expert in this area ( or any other for that matter:tinysmile_grin_t
                            "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

                            "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Pedro v RBS re-possesion

                              lol.............you are helping Scooby.........you are more of an expert than me...

                              anyway so............if I sent a SAR could I request a policy provision booklet that I would have had in 1998 (if they had given me one)

                              Ped

                              Comment

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