Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

[redrose281]

APOLOGIES, THE TITLE SHOULD READ AMENDED DEFENCE STATEMENT, NOT AMENDED WITNESS STATEMENT.

I have an ongoing dispute against my ex bank for a Charge that they put onto my property, wherein the Bank Manager lied and made false promises to get me to agree to allow the Charge to be put onto my property to secure a large overdraft that I had due to the fact the bank gave me bad advice and the Investment I made turned out to be a scam!


As soon as it was discovered I`d been scammed, the Bank Manager did everything in his power to get me to allow them to secure the Overdraft on my property, and he eventually got me to agree by telling me I wouldn`t have to make any payments until such time as I sold my property- the bank then took between £500 - £600 per month in interest charges, which crippled me financially!

I have since found out many things from documents disclosed in `disclosure` wherein the bank have lied and documents which clearly show I didn`t meet any of the banks lending criteria , and one states the reason for overriding the computer to allow the facility, is "To clear the debt and exit the relationship", by putting the charge on my property, they would still be in a relationship, so it is my belief that they put the charge on with the sole purpose of possessing my property!

On 6th February, there was a Repossession Hearing, and I actually got a Judge who listened and accepted that the bank had been far from squeaky clean in this and he stated he was adjourning the Hearing to allow me to submit an amended Defence Statement using a Defence of Estoppel. The bank also claims my PPI claim and my Counterclaim relating to the Charge are time barred, the judge made amongst other rulings, this one which has to be adhered to by this coming Friday...(sorry I know this is last minute, but I thought someone was going to help me, but now they aren`t replying to me, so I can only assume they are ill or not on-line), so I am begging for help on here.

The Order says:-

By 6th March 2015, the First Defendant shall serve on the Claimant any amendment of her Defence and Counterclaim such amendment to be limited to a Defence of Estoppel arising out of misrepresentations made to her identified in paragraphs 23-31 inclusive of her defence and Counterclaim and identifying any detriment sustained by her and the reason why the Claimant should be estopped from relying on the legal charge identified in the Parrticulars of Claim and further identifying the First Defendants date of knowledge as to the falsehood of such representations.


I am unsure as to how I should reply to this, as I`m unsure what it means? Additionally, I have submitted an SAR and have been told by the bank I won`t have those documents until 28th March 2015 and I am confident there will be other documentation I will be able to use to prove my case...please how do I ask that I can add any furthere information available after my Amended Witness Statement is submitted?

Many thanks

[seduraed]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

dont panic the knowledgeable beagles will be long shortly.

[stevemLS]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

It's really difficult to make any suggestions based on what you say.

However, it appears from the order that it is not your witness statement that needs to be amended rather it is your defence and counter claim.

In order to be able to rely on estoppel you need to show that a) an unequivocal promise was made that the bank would act in a particular way; b) that you have changed your position in reliance on that promise and c) the bank knew that you would so act and it would be inequitable to permit them to renege on their promise.

The leading case is Central London Property Trust Ltd v High Trees House Ltd (1947) - I can't find a link to the transcript but there is discussion of the case here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central...rees_House_Ltd

You need to clearly demonstrate how each of the factors I mention above apply to your case.

Good luck.

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Thank you very much seduraed and stevemLS - stevemLS, you are quite right, it is an amended defence, not Witness Statement, I was typing it in a hurry before I had to go out for my dentists appointment, (hence all of the typo`s, sorry :/ ),

The problem I have, is how do I prove that an unequivocal promise was made that the bank would act in a particular way, when it was just the spoken word between the bank manager and myself? He hasn`t committed himself to any documentation stating this as obviously, he knew full well that wasn`t the case...however, he has stated in one of his contemperaneous file notes that I said he`d said I wouldn`t have to make any payments, but that he didn`t say that, all he`d said was I would be financially better off...which is a complete lie as there is no way I would have allowed the Charge to be placed on my property when it didn`t benefit me in any way at all, and in fact made me in a worse position as my home then became at risk?


I presume the answer to point `b` would be that my position has changed in that I now have a charge on my property and I am at risk of losing my home? Is that correct?

With regards to point `c`, I`m sorry but could you please explain a little more?

Thank you for your help to date, I really do appreciate it ,

xx

[stevemLS]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

TBH, I think you will be in difficulty in establishing estoppel if you cannot demonstrate the promise to act in a particular manner. Others may feel differently?

However, if you are able to say something like "At a meeting held on xxxx date between myself and Mr XXX, Mr X made the plain representation to me that no payments would be due in relation to the outstanding debt until such time as my property was sold" or whatever the case was, the court will have to decide which version of events it prefers.

It does, to be frank, sound a bit implausible to me that a bank would say that they would clear the overdraft and no payments would be due simply by way of securing it on the property - what was the size of the overdraft if they were charging £600pm interests!?

However, the change in position isn't the charge itself. You may have been planning to downsize in order to repay the debt and stayed in the property on the basis of what the bank manager told you. Something like that - how you ordered your life in reliance on the promise made by the bank manager.

In order to show c), you need to have some evidence that you made the bank aware that you had changed your plans as described above and that you were doing so because of what they had told you.

I guess the bank will argue that but for the charge on the property they would have demanded immediate repayment of the overdraft which would itself have placed the property in immediate jeopardy.

I don't want to be off-putting but cases where promissory estoppel is successfully argued are few and far between.

Other Beagles may have more helpful suggestions or experiences than I.

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Hi,

Thank you for that stevemLS, I understand what you are saying with regards to it sounding implausible that a bank would say that they would clear the overdraft and no payments would be due simply by way of securing it on the property , but it was done as an `all monies` mortgage, (to be honest I didn`t even fully understand what that meant until recently when it was explained to me, (mis-selling by the Bank again?), but this was a Bank manager who from his own admittance in his file notes, had allowed a huge overdraft on the basis of expected funds, but he had done no financial checks on myself, and who has completed a form stating quite clearly that I didn`t meet any of the lending criteria at that time and in his own words on a bank document states:-

"This situation is far from ideal in that we have in the past allowed the customers limit to chase the balance without undertaking a full appraisal of her financial situation. We have also been pawnbroking on the say so of promised funds without obtaining any documentary evidence ...."

I think that very statement by him shows gross negligence -this is a bank manager who has made an all mighty cock- up , (don`t think that`s a legal term but is the only way I can describe it :/ ), and would have sold his granny to get out of it! He actually came to my house for the meeting where he eventually told me I wouldn`t have to make any payments and my Ex was present, but he`s disappeared off the face of the earth!

The size of the overdraft was £45000 .

I have a Farm with two barns and applied for Planning permission to convert the two barns to residential and my aim was to sell the Farmhouse and the big barn and to convert the little barn for myself to live in which would enable me to clear my mortgage and all outstanding debts...

Could you please tell me what FG6 means with regards to the charge placed on my property as the bank manager states in his file notes relating to the apllication for the charge that:-

"This application does not comply with current lending guidelines as it is categorised as FG6 and is a personal relationship"


The Bank is also saying that my claim for PPI and Counterclaim is time barred, what proof do I need to say these aren`t time barred please?

Many thanks for your help xx

[stevemLS]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

I am now out of my depth - I don't know what FG6 means.

Nor do I know on what basis other PPI claims have been made when they are so clearly time barred under the ordinary rules of limitation. I can only imagine that the limitation clock has started to run from a significant decision either by the FCT, the OFT or a court.

Can someone else step in and help redrose? She doesn't have a great deal of time to get this sorted and filed.

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Thank you so much stevemLs for all of your help to date, I can`t tell you how grateful I am xx

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Can anyone please help me with the matters stevemLs was unable to ? :-( xx

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Please can anyone help me? Xx :-(

[stevemLS]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Bump for Redrose

[Amethyst]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Bump for Redrose

Morning, reading back, so sorry it's been a tad manic. xxxx

FG6 - I really wouldn't know - it would seem to be an internal bank note for banking relationships - I'd guess it indicates based on private issues rather than formal usual lending criteria. ie. They smelt money and thought 'we'll do anything we can to make sure we get some of that, regardless of potential consequences of it going wrong' only way to find out is to ask someone in the know at HSBC or in the investment world...

Having a look at the amended defence now.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Order:-

[Amethyst]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

It really doesn't help that you had a Barrister write your defence and then didn't have them to carry through the defence and part 20 claim. Do you have any idea when your pro bono rep will come through? I think it may be an idea to ask the court to give you more time until you get that sorted as this is a very complex argument, estoppel is very tricky - you need proper legal assistance to carry the case on.

You could potentially use the Subject Access Request not being ready to collect until March 28th 2015 - although it doesn't specifically apply to the estoppel defence - you believe it contains evidence of what was mistated to you at the meeting regards the overdraft.


Copying earlier message ( minus opinion so it's objective)

Has a document wherein it is clearly an assessment for whether someone meets the lending criteria and is basically `yes`, `no` answers, the obvious requirement is to have all `yes`, but this has all `no`s apart from one question, it clearly shows I do not meet any of the lending criteria, but says it is a personal relationship and so is being done as an FG6

It then says `Overriding Objective`- and the answer is `To clear all debt and exit the relationship`
The document finishes with `Recommendation`, then goes on to say :-

This situation is far from ideal in that we have in the past allowed the customers limit to chase the balance without undertaking a full appraisal of her financial situation. we have also been pornbroking, on the say so of promised funds without obtaining any documentary evidence and are now as the stage where servicing of the debts is no longer affordable. We therefore feel it appropriate for facilities to remain at FG6 with full provisions ...."

however they had previously told you they had checked the investment account in the US and were lending to you on the basis that THEY found that was in order, even though it wasn't.

[redrose281]

Re: Bank v Myself - Help need for Amended Witness Statement Please

Thank you so much Amethyst for getting back to me, I so appreciate it :-), just a quick message as I have to go to an appointment, but how can I ask for a delay ? Is there a form or procedure I need to follow? This whole thing is a mess as the bank have already submitted their disclosure, but it is clear they haven`t submitted everything they should have as the majority of file notes from that time are missing...clearly they don`t want the full story out there :/ I have a feeling that a great deal more will come to light once I receive all of the documentation but don`t know how I can then get any of the new information into the case when disclosure has already taken place :/ Has anyone any ideas please? xx