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Virgin are getting on my last nerve

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  • Virgin are getting on my last nerve

    Got contract phone for young daughter (12) restricted minutes talk and text, I've just found out that she's run up a phone bill of £80 for over use of talk.

    I know that when she has no msgs that this gets turned off, so how can I have charge for talk.

    I've asked for a copy of the contract

    The contract was taken out over the phone, no mention of overcharging nor was I directed to T&Cs to look at.

    Are mobiles covered by the CCA or are they different, I've asked for a copy contract so I can go through it.

    Any ideas or thoughts welcome
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

    Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

  • #2
    Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

    I have a feeling that telephones are the one thing that arent covered by the CCA. What about a copy of the phonecall perhaps?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

      I really sympathise with you. You were trying to be responsible and restrict calls and texts so I agree I would be annoyed as well.

      Having a niece at the moment who is actually stealing phones and also using other peoples credit cards to get access to calls and texts I think it is a huge problem. In our case she seems addicted to the contact and even a visit to the police has not yet solved the problem.

      I am sure your daughter did not do this intentionally and thought like you that it woould stop when the money ran out.
      "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

      "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

        Phones aren't covered by the CCA - apparently its an airtime agreement not a credit agreeemnt.

        What did you think you had signed up for? Was it explained. Around 3 years ago when my daughter was about 12 ish we got stung by Virgin 3 months on the trot.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

          An update

          I sent the following letter at the time I started this thread

          17 Apr 09

          Dear Mr/Ms xxxxxx
          Thank you for you letter dated 15 Apr 09 the contents of which are noted.
          Please provide me by return, a copy of your complaints procedure and consider this account in dispute as defined by the Office of Fair Trading Final guidance on unfair business practices July 2003 (updated December 2006).
          I also dispute any sum claimed as due for exceeding talk time so please do not make any attempt at recovering this amount until such time as our dispute is resolved.
          To be clear until this dispute is resolved;
          a.You may not apply unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs.
          b.You may not apply disproportionate charges
          c.You should cease all collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed account.
          d.You may not pass on details to any third party without the my informed prior consent
          With respect to the terms and conditions sent;
          e.I contend that I was never directed to read these T&Cs prior to entering into this agreement with Virgin. Please provide me with proof that I agreed to these Terms on 10 Dec 08.
          f.Some of the terms in the Agreement are in contravention to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, e.g.
          i.Demanding that I pay by direct debit implying an undisclosed administration charge. This is classed by the Office of Fair Trading as an unfair penalty term.
          In respect to the above I now require, by return, for you to provide me with the following so that I may set up a standing order with my bank any failure to do this will result in my cancelling the direct debit;
          ii.Bank Account number, Sort code and account reference for the payment to be made.
          g.The issue at hand revolves around the suspension of the account based on your assertion that a credit limit was exceeded; please provide me with proof that you informed me as to what this limit was.
          I require a full, free of charge, statement of calls and account for the period 101208 to date, by return, so that I may ascertain where the cost over run on calls were actually made by me. I am unable to obtain these on line as the account is suspended.
          Further, I require you to provide me with information as to what legal standard allows you to assume an agreement or contract is in force without a properly obtained signature.
          I do hope you will treat this complaint seriously and behave in a manner in line with the guidance laid down by the Office of Fair Trading for handling consumer complaints.
          NO response and the removed £78 pounds from my account on 28 Apr 09, which I didn't notice until 20 May where I sent this letter

          Dear Mr/Ms xxxxxx
          I do not seem to have received a response to my letter dated 17 Apr 09, please do so at your earliest convenience.
          Despite my explicit request not to remove funds from my account until such time as we had reconciled my current dispute I find that your organisation did just that on 28 Apr 09. I demand that you return these funds (£78.93) immediately or I will lodge an immediate complaint with the ombudsman.
          I will be cancelling my direct debit after the next payment unless you provide me with the information requested Para f [ii] below. This does not mean that I will not pay the account due once delivered but I will be doing so on invoice and by Cheque.
          Onto the statements sent, there are a number of anomalies in the records that I would like Virgin to investigate and for you to report back;
          a.Why was there no check done as to the huge leap in usage in Mar/Apr when the previous use was within limits. Surely this pattern should have rang some bells and a call to alert me of the situation would have prevented the issue we currently face.
          b.The following numbers are not recognised, please provide me with further details as to who this number belongs to;
          i.28 Dec 09 – 0046737494040 – we do not know anyone in Sweden
          ii.Mar/Apr 09 – calls to 07827747018 x2, texts to 07964101237 x4, 07817582021 x3, 07827747018 x6, 07833063081.
          Please do not ignore this letter as you seem to have done with the last, I remind you we are in dispute and if necessary I will issue a complaint to the ombudsman should I not have a suitable response within 14 days
          No reply yet but I notice they removed another £53 from my account again without my permission, I rang to complain was called back by finance and tiold the charges will not be refunded sending this letter tomorrow to customer complaints to their head office.

          Sir or Madam
          I am writing to request that someone in your organisation takes responsibility for investigating my complaint. I have not had a single response to the enclosed letters.
          As a consequence you have taken £161 (two charges of £78 & £ 53) from my bank account against my direct wishes and whilst we are in dispute.
          Your complaints procedure promises a written response within 4 days, had this been the case I should have received a response to my 1st letter on or about 22 Apr 09, five days before you removed the £78 (Apr) from my account, by not responding as per your complaints procedure you have removed the money without my permission.
          I have recently complained by phone regarding a second charge of £53 (90mins of phone calls on 13 May). As the invoice period for the above account is from the 12th to the 12th of the month, it is my contention that this charge should have been accounted for in the May period of my contract and the 90mins of calls is covered by the £12 fee payable for that period.
          I believe you have no excuse for this unwarranted disregard of a consumer complaint and demand that you return these monies to my account until such time as our dispute is resolved.
          Should I have not received a detailed response to this and the enclosed letters by Fri 12th May 09, or I will consider you in breach of contract, cancel my direct debit and complain to Otelo or Ofcom
          ON a consult with CB he reckons and I agree that they cannot demand a method of payment but the are within their rights (thanks OFT) to make a charge. However, I've checked the contract it stipulates payments by DD but does not stipulate a charge if payments are made by a different method, in fact it offers no choice what so ever.

          Lets see if they get back to me
          Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

          Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

            Frisp my friend, you have threatened to cancel the direct debit on more than on occasion if they fail to respond to you, they have failed, cancel the direct debit. Not receiving payment from you is the only language they understand, they will soon respond if they arent getting paid.
            Any opinions I give are my own. Any advice I give is without liability. If you are unsure, please seek qualified legal advice.

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            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

              I'm with Tools on this one - cancel the Direct Debit now. That will prod them into talking to you, no doubt. No doubt they will also supsend your service if you don't pay them the bills in full.

              Have you tried calling the unrecognised numbers to see who they belong to? Virgin probably won't be able to tell you, if they are Virgin numbers they won't be able to tell you because of confidentiality etc, and if they are not Virgin numbes then they probably don't know who they nbelong to anyway.

              FWIW, my personal thinking on kids and mobile phones is to make them have PAYG. That's the only sure fire way to be in control of their spending. (or anyone else spending it for them). You are probably stuck with the contract for the time being, on at least the minimum monthly charge whilst you sort this out with Virgin, but you could probably get a PAYG sim card and put it into your daughter's phone, that way she won't be totally cut off.
              Both my kids had contract phones from the age of 14, and I must admit we did have a few hiccups early on with them going over their monthly bill, but once son was working and the bill started coming out of his bank account instead of ours he took a lot more notice of his costs! My daughter is surprisingly good now, but that could have a lot to do with the fact that most of her friends are on the same network and she gets free calls to them, and unlimited texts!
              Is no longer here

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                Thanks guys

                DD canceled (I had to give them one more chance) as of today and Daughter back on PAYG
                ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                Response from Consumer direct re my question on payments by DD

                A company may offer their goods of services, conditional on payment by direct debit, or any other method of payment. However, standard contract terms are subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. The Regulations deem a term unfair (and therefore ineffective) it the term is contrary to good faith, and causes a significant imbalance in the parties rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.
                Anyone want to translate that into Scottish for me?
                Last edited by frisp; 6th June 2009, 06:39:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
                Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

                Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                  Basically CD are agreeing with what we already thought that demanding payment in ONE form and not offering an alternate is indeed contrary to UTCCR..
                  Have fun, I'm done..

                  Laterz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                    Thanks Curly - your Scottish translation is purfick, might be worth quoting this if ever I get into serious discourse with anyone in Virgin who knows what they are talking about, might have await on my hands there.

                    Letter received today from Virgin, I'm sure its in response to my complaint call and not my letters. Note the spelling of minutes, perhaps they want to dance





                    My letter in response

                    Virgin Mobile
                    Willow Grove Hse
                    Windsor Rd
                    White Horse Business Pk
                    Trowbridge
                    Wiltshire
                    BA14 0TQ
                    6 Jun 09

                    Dear Ms Elliot-Campbell
                    Thank you for you letter dated 31 May 09, the contents of which are noted. I do not seem to have received the required response to my letters dated 17 Apr, 24 May and 31 May 09 [enclosed] please do so at your earliest convenience.
                    You assert that I was informed of the credit limit applied to my account and that this allowed me to use the phone outside the limits of the agreed amount yet do not provide evidence to support your case. I disagree with both assertions and would like you to send me the transcript of the telephone call recorded at the time I opened the account.
                    I am not disputing the charges, there is one or 2 that do not compute and I’ve asked you to investigate them. I am disputing your right to allow an over usage of the account despite the deal being advertised as fixed minutes [pse note spelling] and text which resulted in these charges been applied.
                    Had the account been run as advertised no over usage would be allowed, no overspend, no bill to pay, QED.
                    Virgin has removed monies from my account without my permission, I disputed the amount before the said removal and that is why I require the refund.
                    As your response is from the same office as Ms Janicki, I can only assume you do not intend to answer any of my questions or queries contained therein and I am, as permitted by the Office of Fair Trading, cancelling my direct debit until such time as our dispute is resolved.
                    Please provide me with the details requested for a standing order; so that I may resume payments when/if our dispute is resolved.
                    If my complaints are not dealt to my satisfaction by 12 May 09, I will consider Virgin has broken the contract between us and commence my complaint to the ombudsman.

                    Yours Sincerely
                    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

                    Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                      Originally posted by frisp View Post
                      Letter received today from Virgin, I'm sure its in response to my complaint call and not my letters. Note the spelling of minutes, perhaps they want to dance
                      This is just the kind of lack of attention to detail and complete ineptitude that gets people like Virgin Media into trouble like this.

                      Also, what precisely is "a email" and "a up to date balance"?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                        We must not mock the afflicted, perhaps I should send this example to Sir Richard for his view
                        Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

                        Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                          Email Neil Berkett (Neil Berkett (at) virginmedia.co.uk) and tell him how disappointed you are with the lack of customer service you have received. You will need to outline the problems you have encountered and indicate what result you expect from his intervention.
                          Redletter.


                          I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair - I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires.......(Darren Hayes/Savage Garden)

                          "Get up at 6 face another day another red letter in the mail-already taken my TV away-whatever I earn there's always more to pay.....Gotta turn these rags to riches turn the pennies into pounds cos right now all my days are bitches and I'm tired of being down!." Copyright Change! (Redletter 2006).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                            Thanks for the email addr, I'll give it a whirl what's his appointment @ virgin
                            Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

                            Nemo me impune lacessit - No one provokes me with impunity. (Motto of the Kings of Scotland)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Virgin are getting on my last nerve

                              Have a read of these, if you have not already done so.

                              Virgin Media - Legal Beagles
                              Virgin Media 2 - The Incompetence Continues (in fact, it never really ceased) - Legal Beagles

                              Comment

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