HP voluntary termination issues

[gringolian]

Hi,

I terminated an HP agreement on my old car a couple of months ago and have had the finance company try to charge me £700 for damage beyond fair wear and tear. They've sent me a BVRLA booklet, but having checked the BVRLA website, they are not even members, does this matter? I've disputed the FWAT because as far as I'm concerned the marks they have mentioned may be FWAT on a 2-3 year old lease/rental car, but on an 8 year old car would be absolutely expected. Anyway, whats my stance here. As far as I'm concerned I'm not paying it, and have hundreds of photos taken the day they collected the car that show these marks. I guess if you stick to the absolute letter of the BVRLA document you could consider them beyond FWAT, but like I said this is an 8 year old car!
They have also admitted to me in a letter that the repairs were not carried out, but that they are just trying to cover their losses!

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Hi gringolian,

There's a link in my signature if you haven't read it, might be worth a read. You are right to stick to your guns but I wold be grateful if you could post up a redacted copy of the letter from the letter admitting that they have not had the vehicle repaired.

You can send it to admin@legalbeagles.info putting your username/thread title to post it up.

It isn't GMAC or BMW by any chance?

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Nope, not either of those. It's Marsh Finance. I've sent the letter to the email address you supplied but the paragraph in question reads:
"In relation to the damage costs you have been charged for you are correct that the repairs have not been carried out and it is for the reduction in valuation of the vehicle due to the damages on the vehicle"
Thanks for the info and help. I read the post you made before I VT'd so think I have myself covered, I just wanted to see how far to push them on this.

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

I've tagged [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] to pick it up and post if she can.

Well if they were ever to take you to court on this, and I say court lightly because it is not likely they would and will just badger you for the money til you give in.

They should mitigate their losses and by arguably by not mitigating their losses or even paying for the repairs to be done they have in effect not lost any money. As my post suggests it only needs to be in a reasonable condition taking into account various factors such as the age.

In law, an innocent party to a breach of contract must mitigate their losses and under a duty to keep their losses to a minimum.

Where did the damage report come from, was it manheim? Either way it is up to marsh to prove that the vehicle was in an unreasonable condition not yourself. They would effectively have to show the value difference between what you handed back and the same vehicle if t was supposedly in a reasonable condition. Just because there is some damage to the vehicle doesn't mean it isn't in an unreasonable condition. The car doesn't have to be in pristine condition or like new or almost new etc.

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Hi,

I've stuck to my guns on this despite several calls and threats from Marsh, and I've had a letter from a solicitors firm this morning threatening court action if this remains unpaid. Not only that, but the figure that Marsh Finance told me was due to be paid has suddenly gone up by quite some margin. I'd be interested to know what the advice is from here. Should I take this to the financial ombudsman?

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Hello,

Could you possibly post up a copy of the letter redacting your personal info so i can take a look? I am surprised how the damages could have gone up. You could also seek to take it to the Ombudsman and see what they say, but equally how can they prove that all of that damage was there when you first got the car?! They can't..

Take a photo and upload it to postimage.org and post up the link for forum thumbnail and i'll take a look.

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Hi,

Thanks for your reply. here is the link:

https://postimg.org/image/eg4oalctb/

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

It's a nonsense letter I think. No grounds for bringing the claim as your liability is restricted to 50% of the total amount payable under the agreement and it does not matter how much the vehicle sold for at auction, you are not for the difference. Despite that, they can't claim interest and it doesn't even show how its calculated and from what dates.

Do you have a copy of your agreement still? If so, have a read through it and see if there is any clause that allows them to claw back any sums in the event the the agreement is terminated for whatever reason. I'd be about 80% sure that it isn't but even if it is, it is void and unenforceable as it contradicts the CCA, and the CCA prevails over contractual terms.

also check for the clause or reference of something like "YOUR TERMINATION RIGHTS: ... if you pay 50% of the agreement and the car is a reasonable condition, you do not need to pay any more." It's a requirement by the CCA that it must be in there so I'm confident it is.

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

I'm sure I still have the agreement somewhere, but I can't seem to find it right now. I definitely do not remember seeing anything in the agreement about them getting sums back if the agreement is terminated, and I'm pretty sure I'd remember that as I checked it over before I VT'd, and the 50%, reasonable condition clause was definitely in there.
Another point worth mentioning is the original figure they wanted from me was £481.50, they then went back on their "fair wear and tear" assessment of the wheels and removed that so reduced to £269.03. The solicitors letter doesn't make any reference to either of these figures and randomly plucks out a difference from how much it sold at auction and what Glass determined it was supposedly worth, then adds a non-descriptive amount of interest!
I have raised a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman, and will see what happens with that. given that they seem to be randomly changing the amount I supposedly owe them, and the reasons for it, I can't see them coming out on top.

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

If you would like I could provide a sample response to the letter covering all relevant points

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

would be great if you are willing, thanks!

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Duplicate post!!

[R0b]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

sample response below, I didn't put in the bits about the damages because thats an entirely separate claim itself. All they are claiming for is the difference in value, not the damages beyond fair wear so you don't need to give them assistance!

I've put in about the reclaiming of the difference in value but I would double check your agreement it might say they can claim certain things but i've never seen an agreement to reclaim the difference in value. If there's no clause in there I would amend and say that, and ask them to point out where it does say it. If it's in there then my current response would be enough to offset that argument.

Finally, the last bit in red is optional but always worth putting in to show you are serious.

------------------------------

[DATE]

Dear Sirs,

Re: Claim for an alleged debt of £550.00 due under agreement number CB02563/1625944/1

I am writing in response to your letter dated 24 August 2016 in which you state that you are owed an alleged sum of £550.00 for the difference in value of the vehicle sold at auction and its valuation by Glass’s Guide. Please could you confirm in what capacity you are acting as your letter seems to indicate that you are affiliated with Conister Bank Limited by suggesting that you have contacted me previously, however this is the only contact I have had from you and all other contact has been with Marsh Finance (“Marsh”).

Nonetheless, this dispute originates from a hire-purchase agreement I entered into with Marsh on XX XX XXXX. On or about XX XX XXXX I gave written notice to Marsh to terminate the agreement under section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the “Act”), which was acknowledged and the car returned on XX XX XXXX. You may be aware that section 100 of the Act sets out the extent of my liability that is one half of the total price payable. For the purposes of this section, ‘total price’ means:

the total sum payable by the debtor under a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sale agreement, including any sum payable on the exercise of an option to purchase, but excluding any sum payable as a penalty or as compensation or damages for a breach of the agreement.

I would also refer you to section 173 of the Act which further confirms that any contractual provision imposes additional liability whether direct or indirect which is inconsistent with any provisions of the Act, shall be rendered void and unenforceable. Furthermore, I would also refer you to the agreement in which it states that provided I have paid at least one half of the total amount payable, I am not required to pay anything more.

Accordingly, the sums which you allege to be owed cannot be claimed notwithstanding any contractual provisions which may allow this. I am sure I need not remind you of the hierarchy of laws within the UK. In the circumstances, your claim for the value in difference is entirely without merit and I would urge you to withdraw your claim immediately.

I also note that you are requesting interest on the amount outstanding but I am somewhat perplexed as to how you can claim this prior to any letter before action. As previously stated, this is the first correspondence received from you and it is therefore my view that no interest can be charged until a letter before claim has been issued. Despite this, you have also failed to provide a breakdown as to how the interest has been calculated.

Please also note that I have since submitted a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman in relation to this dispute and Marsh’s conduct in this matter. I also refer you to CONC rule 7.15.15 which confirms that a lender must not commence legal proceedings in the knowledge that a valid complaint has been submitted to the Ombudsman. As Marsh is regulated by the FCA, this creates a binding obligation on them and they must comply. Failing to do so may result in enforcement action by the FCA.

[Should you insist on commencing legal proceedings, it will be my intention to defend the claim in full and a counterclaim will be made for malicious prosecution in which I will be seeking damages as the claim is groundless.]

I look forward to hearing from you.

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

you are a true gent. Thanks I'll dig out the original agreement and get the letter sent in the next day or so. Will update once I hear back.

[gringolian]

Re: HP voluntary termination issues

Just as an update to this, I got a letter from Marsh the other day about 3 pages long detailing that this was their final response following the ombudsman complaint and that they were charging me x because of damages on the car that were beyond fair wear and tear...blah blah blah....difference to CAP value, so they were out of pocket...blah blah etc etc, then on the last page, one small line that basically said, however as a gesture of goodwill we have written off this debt therefore nothing further is owed on the account!!! Only took about 8 months, but at least I got there in the end! Thanks for your help Rob