Consumer Rights Act 2015/Invoice Dates - Used car - Auction????

[jje93]

Hello

I will try and keep this brief, I bought a car from a garage which predominantly acts as a car auction. However I bought the car from an online advert advertising a retail price, I went, saw the car, asked the price, was quoted and bought it. Sadly it broke down on my way home (head gasket, 9miles!). I have tried to reject under Consumer Rights Act 2015 however garage is insisting per their terms and conditions it was sold at auction and therefore sold as seen. I disagree, although they call themselves an auction there was no competing bids or bidding for hat matter. Not even negotiation! Surely I am entitled to a refund, the car has been with them since I had it returned the day I bought it in early January. They are threatening to ask for storage costs now but it is their responsibility to refund my money and their prerogative it has taken so long?

Also I bought and returned the car on 10th January, officially wrote an email to reject the car on the 11th January but the invoice states 12th January to tie in with their Friday auction. I can prove my dates, what are the implications of this? I have effectively rejected the car before their contract has even started, is that legally correct or are the dates largely irrelevant.

It is only £600 but it is a matter of principle to me.

All help/advice appreciated

[Laticsforlife]

Don't suppose you paid by Credit card, maybe S74 protection can apply here.

Otherwise,

Court proceedings - LBA required (Letter Before Action).

Head a letter with this to their Head Office and to the place you purchased from.

Set out the timeline and circumstances, asking for a full refund in 14 days or you will start legal proceedings. But you must then follow this up and actually do it, can't just be a threat then start them 6 months down the line.

As they are lying, seems like you have a good case.

[jje93]

Unfortunately not, I used debit card. Have asked my bank to pursue under chargeback scheme but they are unwilling to help because the terms and conditions are quite clear.

I have explained that I believe their terms and conditions are illegal. My parents are trying to discourage me from pursuing through court because of extra costs. The trader is totally unwilling to abide by consumer laws, I even took the time to email them with a full breakdown of my position and they are unmoved. I see a number of similar reviews online from people having had similar experiences to me and they haven't changed their ways. I expect most people give up. I'm not prepared to as a matter of principle.

It is a shame we have such excellent consumer protection yet no real way to pursue it.

I have attached a copy of my invoice for you to look at their t's and c's.

[ostell]

Have you still got a copy of that advert? Would help immensely. If the auctions are every Friday then see if you can get a copy of any advert saying the same. Get the date of payment from your bank statement.

Were you made aware of those conditions before you paid? ( I can't read them) If not then they can't apply them afterwards.

Then, as advised send them that Letter before claim.

Here's the login for the Money Claim online Page To use the page you have to have a Government Gateway login. That is not an immediate process so set that in motion so that you can start the claim as soon as you get to the end of the 14 days you give them to repay.

Assure you parents that the cost of court is not great. £60 to start the court proceedings, £25 to pay for the hearing if they don't pay up. All this is added to the claim plus your lost wages (max £95), travel and parking costs. They are also limited in what they can claim from you if you lose. I think the chances of losing are slim. Of course you will get help with your claim on here.

If they don't respond to the claim then you win by default

P.S. If they don't pay up when you win then you may be starring in that TV programme "Can't pay, we'll take it away"

[Amethyst]

"All vehicles bought from these premises are deemed unroadworthy. "
"All usual auction terms and conditions apply to any vehicle purchased on these premises whether at the live auction or at any time."
However if that wasn't made clear to you you could still have an argument. Did you see the sales invoice or any terms before buying the car?

I bought the car from an online advert advertising a retail price,

Would you have a copy of the original advertisement ?

The company has 'auction' in its name which presumably it think absolves it of anything but seems to have a number of cars on its forecourt with prices in the windcreens...

( sorry crossed posts with Ostell there )

[jje93]

No but I have copies of similar from same garage, see below. Currently still advertising as such. Scan not all that clear but point valid, I have the original of this but they are still advertising on autotrader like this

[ostell]

What I could see on the invoice was something like pointing to a seperate or online document for the T & C's therefore not applicable. Seems like they are wide boys trying to get round the Consumer Rights Act.

[jje93]

Have you still got a copy of that advert? Would help immensely. If the auctions are every Friday then see if you can get a copy of any advert saying the same. Get the date of payment from your bank statement.

Were you made aware of those conditions before you paid? ( I can't read them) If not then they can't apply them afterwards.
"

Auction day is all over their website. I have an email off them to say they don't dispute the car was bought and paid for on Wednesday 10th January.

If it is a retail sale, which it is, their terms are irrelevant as the CRA2015 supersedes all that surely?

[jje93]

Also attached copy of said terms and conditions which seemingly relate solely to auctions

[ostell]

Those terms seem to be just for the vendors. There is a part that the cars are sold as unroadworthy. I would say that is illegal.

Were you given a copy of those T & C's before you bought?

[jje93]

No, they are painted over the wall in the auction hall where I wsa taken to pay. My understanding is the part about being unroadworthy is valid if bought at an auction but at retail sale from a trader CRA applies.

Same as if you buy off ebay, consumer rights are different if you "buy it now" or win the auction. A lot different. The trader hasn't disputed that fact, what he has said is that "the auction is always live" so in other words it is always an auction. I and the Oxford English Dictionary disagree.

"A public sale in which goods or property are sold to the highest bidder."

There was no bidding, I was quoted a price as per online advert and paid it.

[Laticsforlife]

Strong case, but clearly you'd have to take them to Court, and then I suspect you'd have to push it to High Court for a 'Can't Pay we'll take it away' scenario, as I doubt they'd pay, so it's not easy or quick, but it depends on your standpoint.

Are you willing to walk away from 'only' £600, because it might be a bit of work to get it back or are you like me a person who is willing to fight for what is right. (NB £600 is still a lot of money IMO).

Do this lot already have lots of CCJ's against them unpaid? Are they likely to keep changing the Company who runs the business to walk away from debts (phoenixism). If so, save your money, as no CCJ will get you your money from a liquidated Company.

[jje93]

Yes I agree £600 is a lot of money. At the same time it's a balance of risk and reward, the costs of court action and time etc. Is it worth the effort and I am here really to find out what risks are involved. If I am certain of success than it balances heavily in favour of reward. If my chances are slim then it is quite enough to be worth the risk. That's what I meant by that comment.

If you look at google reviews you will see a pattern of behaviour that needs to be stopped, I have spoke to trading standards but frankly they are not interested. Which beggars belief really. How many more will fall victim to these cowboys before somebody takes a stand and they learn how they should do business?

Looking at companies house they have been around a while, I don't know how to look for CCJ's

[ostell]

As pointed out previously the cost of court is not high, £60 rising to £85 if it has to actually go to court. Money you can reclaim.

[Laticsforlife]

Is the risk £85, against the reward of at least £685+. Quite good 'odds' in betting terms.

I note the business is not to a Limited Company and is instead likely a sole-trade and has been running for several years, so you'd be claiming against a person trading as Radcliffe Car Auction.

if you bought from RCA (or Radcliffe Car Auctions) rather than from Radcliffe Car Auction Logistics Ltd (incorporated in 2006) then you need to name Matthew Chapman (trading as) in your Court docs - far easier to collect from if it comes to it as they can go to his house if need be.

Someone needs to stand up for the consumer, is it you?