Training costs

[JPHH]

Hi everyone, apologies for the waffle that will follow.

I am now in quite a bad situation and need some advice.

I started with my previous employer in September 2012 on a trainee position yet with years of previous but not recognised experience. In my contract there was a clause stating if I left within a certain time that I had to repay costs, this was a bit black and white so I queried it with the union who stated it was scare tactics and never enforced.

Fast forward two happy years in the company and my partner had become quite sick with post natal depression and wanted to go back home to the north west. This obviously puts me in a position regarding my contract so I sought further advice and was told the company haven't went after anyone previously and not to worry.

I was was fortunate enough to get another job quite quickly and handed in my notice which was met with demands to pay back either an 8000 lump sum or 850 a month until July of 2015.

Neither of these were were feasible and given the information at hand I felt I was being targeted.

after a lot of threats of having my wages stopped I was forced to resign immediately and subsequently forfeited any pay.

In January 2015 I visited my old property to collect mail as the new tenant was failing to forwarding any on and to my horror there was a summons from the company.

all the contact information for the court was incorrect or out of use so I done some digging and fount the employment solicitors they were using.

Initially all was pleasant, we discussed some options over the phone and I gave my new contact details for any further correspondence.

I explained I needed to seek advice and they kept coming at me with lump sum offers which I could not pay, this led to me coming quite depressed and in all honesty I was contemplating a cowards way out as I could not pay any of the money I owed. I explained how I was feeling in my last email to them back in March and haven't had any correspondence since.

which brings me to today. I was checking my credit report this morning and there in all its glory is a county court judgement for just shy of £5000 issue on 11th may 2015.

Now they've sent this to my old address and not my new one but as I gave him the details on the phone back in January I cannot prove this so am scared of applying for a set aside as I physically don't have that proof to hand.

I would guess as its gone this far they have the legal standpoint to pursue me for costs.


its a lot of waffle and I've probably answered my own questions but any advice on my next steps would be really appreciated.

thank you in advance

[matt3942]

Re: Training costs

Hi [MENTION=68320]JPHH[/MENTION]

I'm sorry to read about your situation.

Have you sought professional legal advice? If not, I would recommend you do.

The costs recovered should be reasonable, i.e. they should reflect the employer's outlay in providing training. Have you been given a breakdown of what the costs cover?

Is there an express term in your contract for the employer to deduct outstanding fees from your pay? If not, you may have a claim for unlawful deductions from wages.

If the employer has not consistently recouped training costs from employees that may go in your favour; however, that could be difficult to prove.

- Matt

[JPHH]

Re: Training costs

I did initially which was varied and I guess foolishly ran with anything that favoured me rather than the employer.

I challenged the amounts they claimed in my contract as there are lots of variants. For example the amounts reduce over time based on your service to the company so surely extra service regardless of benefit to yourself should count. IE; working overtime to keep a service going should count.

Also the training. I finished my course within eight months, others took a year, one took just over 18 months. That's time and therefor extra training so how can they scale be the same.

All this was challenged at the first crossroads and I never once got a satisfactory response.

I'm really between a rock and hard place I'd swallow my pride and work something out if I could get this CCJ wavered but I've spent all day reading and it doesn't look promising

[teaboy2]

Re: Training costs

If you didn't receive the particulars of the claim from the court and they got a court judgement by Default against you, you can apply for it to be set aside on the basis that that you didn't receive the particulars of the claim as you no longer lived at the address they were sent too.

Once the court grants the set aside, it resets everything (i.e. judgement never given so CCJ retracted) to the point where they will need to serve new set of particulars of claim on you at your new/current address! You will still have to defend, but i doubt they will want to go to court! But then i can't really say that wihout knowing what the terms of the training agreement actually were!

[JPHH]

Re: Training costs

Thanks for your reply teaboy.

from what I've read they have to apply for a set aside based on the grounds that they have knowingly attempted to serve notice at an address they know i do not and have not lived at for some time.

i sent this in an email to there lawyer who said they would upon receipt of my new contact details which I've stated I will not give nor enter any further negotiations until this has been set aside.

so I now wait impatiently to see what's going to happen

[teaboy2]

Re: Training costs

Thanks for your reply teaboy.

from what I've read they have to apply for a set aside based on the grounds that they have knowingly attempted to serve notice at an address they know i do not and have not lived at for some time.

i sent this in an email to there lawyer who said they would upon receipt of my new contact details which I've stated I will not give nor enter any further negotiations until this has been set aside.

so I now wait impatiently to see what's going to happen

No your the one that has to apply for the set-aside not them. Think about it, who benefits from having it set-aside because they don't benefit from it, where as you do!

Now they know you have a new address they can easily trace you - electoral register, land registry, credit reference agencies etc (regardless of your refusal to give them the new address or refusal to negotiate (which by the way a court will likely deem as unreasonable behavior on your part). So they could turn up with bailiffs at your new address with a warrant to seize goods to the value of the CCJ, or if you own your own property simply register a charge against the property or even seize your property rendering you and your family homeless.

The onus is on you to apply for the set aside, its not on them regardless of you telling them to have it set-aside. End of the day they'll be laughing at your statement " I've stated I will not give nor enter any further negotiations until this has been set aside."

Its irrelevant if they knew you didn't live there as they are only required to send claim forms to the last known address they had on record for you, and as you didn't tell them your new address then how were they to know you didn't live there when they sent the claim forms!

[JPHH]

Re: Training costs

A claimant can apply for a set aside on certain grounds and they've already responded saying they will do so I'm just waiting for confirmation

[Amethyst]

Re: Training costs

Parties in a claim can agree to a set aside, usually by a consent order, which is signed by both parties and it is sent to the court to approve.

[teaboy2]

Re: Training costs

Yes its possible they may consent and apply for removal of the judgement, but very unlikely (regardless of what they told you). End of the day they have what they want and that's all they need to enable them to apply for a warrant of execution and turn up at your new address to seize goods!

The onus is on you to prove they knew you no longer lived at the old address where they sent the claim forms too at the time they sent the claim forms. Just because your now in contact with them and have told them you were not living there at the time doesn't change anything. They can still seek enforcement!

As per what the claiments lawyers said, well who's paying them? the claimant is. So they will act in the best interest of the claimant, and consenting to a set-aside and removing the judgement is not in the claimants interests. Chances are they are playing delaying tactics with you!

In most court cases its usually always the defendant that has to apply for a set-aside in cases where the defendant didn't receive the claim forms due to same situation your in regarding moving address and forms being sent to old/last known address the claimant had for you.