Big Fight With Nat West ~~ SETTLED ~~

[Deller]

12th October 2006

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Thought I'd share my story with you all, I feel as though its going extremely well.

It all started back in August when I heard this bizzare idea that you could claim back all your bank charges for the last six years. So promptly coming to the CAG site I began to spend many hours reading through many story's and started thinking....hey this actually works.

I was able to jump straight to the preliminary letter stage having kept all my bank statements for some strange reason, (now I know why).
So after entering all my details into the spreadsheet this was sent to the bank along with letter claiming £2643 (not including interest).

The action had begun!!!

I was rather suprised to receive a phone call from my bank several days later acknowledging my letter and to notify me that someone would be writing to me in the next couple of days.
Sure enough a couple of days later the letter arrived, basically telling me they will be looking into the matter.

On the 13th day of their deadline I received another letter, this time offering me the sum of £418 as a good will gesture, with no explanation as to how they arrived at this figure. Well you can guess my response......thanks but no thanks.


So on with the LBA, this was posted quickly and I bagan eagerly awaiting its response.

Again they left it right to the deadline limit before they responded but this time stating that they were very sorry that I was unhappy with their offer of £228 (I think they might find that they offered me £418 first time), but having reviewed my file they would now like to offer £1520 in full and final settlement (again now explanation as to how they had arrived at this figure).
This was tempting, but I thought what the hell I've come this far I might as well go all the way so my claim was filed and there was no backing out now (total claim now at £4151.83 including all interest and fees).

My claim was acknowledged a couple of days later and I am now waiting for the next step, whatever that might be, 28 days to wait me thinks.

[Deller]

13th October 2006

The 28 day deadline is fast approaching so fingures crossed, a nice fat cheque in time for Xmas!!!

I'll be ploughing through any obstacles they stick in my way!!!

[Deller]

16th October 2006

I have submitted my claim with MCOL and the claim has been acknowledged, but now having read through other forums I think I might have rushed in to it and filled it out wrong.
In the box for particulars I wrote,

"I am claiming back all bank charges paid on my account for the past six years as I now understand that the regime of fees which have been applied to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations.
The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 18th September 2000 to 1st October 2006 of £...."

I was also unable to attach a copy of my schedule although this has been sent to the bank with the first two letters.

As I said previously my claim has been acknowledged by Cobbetts and the 28 day deadline is fast approaching (4th Nov I think).

[Deller]

17th October 2006

I've decided I'm going to send a copy of my schedule to Nat West (135 Bishopsgate), Cobbetts (Manchester) and also to MCOL (Northampton), all with covering letter asking them to attach this document to my claim, stating claim reference.

This way I feel as though I've covered all angles and hopefully there will be no stalling factors on their front.

[Deller]

19th October 2006

Received a letter this morning from, yes you've guessed it.......the famous Mr Higley.

Thank you for your letter of 29th September 2006.

The offer was made in full and final settlement of your complaint. I am sorry to note that you will now only accept this as a partial refund and therefore regrettably the offer is withdrawn.

I regret that there is little that I can add constructively to previous correspondence and note your proposed course of action. I have alerted our lawyers and litigation department accordingly. May I please remind you that the address to use when initiating legal documents is that of our Registered Office.

Thank you for letting me know of your intentions.

Stuart Higley

Seems to be a bit of a late response, especially as I filed my claim with MCOL on 1st Oct and it was Acknowledged on 4th Oct.

[Deller]

25th October 2006

God they string this out don't they, its over three weeks now since I filed my claim with MCOL and havn't heard a peep from them.
I can't understand why they don't just pay up earlier and save Mr Higley a hell of a lot of ink and paper. His desk must be swamped in claims!! HEE! HEE!

[Deller]

26th October 2006

Just popped home to check the post....still nothing, I know they've still got a week to get their defence in but I'm so impatient!!!

HURRY UP COBBETTS!!!!

[Deller]

31st October 2006

After a lot of reading I became a little uncertain about my original POC. So after a lot of advice I've gone ahead with my proposed action and faxed through a copy of my updated particulars to Cobbetts along with a covering letter and another copy of my schedule, I have asked for all of this to be attached to my claim and explained that I was unable to provide these details originally due to restrictions of space when filing my claim online. Particulrs sent as follows:-

CLAIM BETWEEN

deller, and

NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK plc


CLAIM NUMBER xxxxxxxx

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM


1. The Claimant has an account, a/c no xxxxxxxx, s/c xx-xx-xx,with the Defendant which was opened around 1991

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges and interest between 18th September 2000 and 1st October 2006 for the sum of £xxxx;
b) Court costs;

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at 8% in the sum of £xxx or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true


Signed:


Date: 31/10/06

I printed a report to confirm the fax had gone through, then after waiting 5 minutes phoned Cobbetts and received confirmation that the documents had been received.

With a bit of luck this may of sorted out my problem.
Here's hoping!!!

[Deller]

2nd Nov 2006

Well, time is running out for Cobbetts to get their defence in and their 28 days are nearlly up. Saturday 4th is judgement day. I expect they'll get their defence in right at the last moment, that seems to be the norm for them.

[Deller]

5th Nov 2006

Been away for a couple of days and got back to find Cobbetts defence on my doormat, right on their last day to get defence in. This is the stage where I'm a little unsure of what happens or what I should do, especially after the recent problems with the particulars of my claim.

Their defence reads as follows:

1. This defence is filed and served without prejudice to the defendant's case that the Particulars of Claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Claimant to recover the bank charges (and interest thereon) referred to in the Particulars of Claim or any other sum(s). In the event that the Claimant does not properly particularise his claim then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

2. On allocation the Defendant invites the Court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the Court to consider the making of appropriate orders to give the Claimant the opportunity to properly particularise his claim.

3. No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimant's bank account.

4. The Defendant is embarrassed by the lack of particularity pleaded in the Particulars of Claim to the extent that the Particulars of Claim fail to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Defendant. The Claimant is required to identify the common law, statutes and consumer regulations that he alleges are unlawful. Until such time as these statutes/regulations and the provisions therin are identified the Defendant cannot plead to the allegation within the Particulars. The Defendant therefore reserves its right to plead further to the allegation once (and if) the Claimant further particularises his claim.

5. The Claimant is time-barred from bringing a claim of unauthrised bank charges prior to 2 October 2000 by the provisions of section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980.

6. Save as hereinbefore appears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on his claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

[Deller]

6th November 2006

I have just checked on MCOL and my case states:- The defendant disputes the whole amount you have claimed. Your claim cannot proceed online and will be transferred to the appropriate court for continuation. You will receive confirmation to where the claim has been transfered to shortly.

[Deller]

7th November 2006

Got home today and found the Allocation Questionnaire had arrived. I've completed as follows.

Q1. Settlement ticked No
Q2. Location of hearing ticked No
Q3. Track ticked Yes
Q4. Witnesses put 0
Q5. Experts ticked No
Q6. Hearing ticked No
Q7. Other information

This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

Allocation Questionaire posted on 9th November

[Deller]

10th November 2006

Got home from work this evening to find a letter from Cobbetts reading as follows:-

Upon consideration of your schedule of charges we note that you set out in your schedule charges incurred in September 2000. Under the Limitation Act 1980, you cannot bring a claim more than 6 years after the date on which the cause of action accured. You issued your claim on 2 October 2006, and you are therefore only legally entitled to claim between the periods 2 October 2000 to 2 October 2006. As suc, you cannot claim for the first 2 entries relating to charges and interest on your schedule.

In any event, our client considers that your challenge to its charges would fail in Court. Our client believes that its charges are fair, reasonable and transparent. It considers that the amounts debited to your account have been applied strictly in accordance with your agreement with it and its published tariff, which it is satisfied complies with all the applicable laws and regulations. Our client is also committed to ensuring the transparency of the information that it gives to its customers about the operation of its products. As such, our client does not believe that your claim has any prospect of succeeding.

However, as a gesture of goodwill and strictly on the basis that our client rejects any liability to you, it is willing to offer you a goodwill payment of £2000.

Acceptance by you of this goowill payment will be in full and final settlement of your claim against our client and strictly on the basis that:-

1. you agree not to disclose to any third party the fact of, or any details relating to, this payment.

2. you write to the Court withdrawing your claim.

Whilst this letter is written without prejudice save as to costs, in the event that you decline this offer, we will draw this letter to the Court's attention on the basis that we hold the firm view that this offer is entirely reasonable in the circustances. This offer will remain open for 7 days until Wed 15 November 2006.

Cobbetts

I'm sure this is probably one of their standard letters but not entirely sure what happens now. I don't think I should be accepting the £2000 seeing as though I'm claiming £4153.83, plus the £100 AQ fee once its cashed, but am I likely to fail in court.

The bit about the Limitation Act 1980 has also got me a bit baffelled, yes I filed my court claim on Oct 1st, but sent my prelim letter on Sept 1st, so am I not within my right to claim back to then? As far as I'm concerned thats when my claim started.

The bit that makes me laugh though is how one minute they're saying they don't have enough information about my claim, and then they're reffering to this same info in their offer letter.....IDIOTS.

[Deller]

12th November 2006

Response to their letter was sent as follows:

Thank you for your letter dated 8th November 2006.

I first contacted your client regarding their unlawful charges on 1st September 2006 and therefore disagree with your contention that some of these charges fall outside the scope of the Limitations Act 1980. However I am happy to let the court decide on this matter.

Your client should consider themselves fortunate I have not claimed charges going further back, since I believe that any limitation would be overturned under the terms of section 32 of the Limitations Act, due to their continued "concealment" of the facts that their charges are unlawful, or for relief from a "mistake".

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, interest and court fees, which together with the daily rate of £0.XX now total £xxxx as of XXth November 2006

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

I will be willing to withdraw my claim upon receipt of unconditional full settlement of my claim.

I am also not prepared to agree to any confidentiality clauses you try to impose, unless of course your client wishes to make an offer of due consideration in addition to the amount of £xxxxx, in order to be afforded this privilege by myself.

I trust this clarifies my position.

Yours faithfully

[Deller]

20th November 2006

Phoned Bristol CC to see if Cobbetts had returned their AQ yet, but no such luck. I guess they're really gonna string this out til the bitter end and really make me wait!

Asked the rather helpful lady what Cobbetts deadline was for returning their AQ as there had been some slight confusion with fact that I had received two copies and two different deadlines, she confirmed that it was 30th Nov ( had to be expected I guess).

Don't suppose I'll be hearing anything before then, unless I give Cobbetts some hassle on the phone (maybe my mission for tomorrow), to try and get some positive action!!