Pigletto v Gym membership cancellation fees

[pigletto]

Hello,

I am new, nice to be here!

I have a quick question, if I may.
I am disputing my gym's demands for some extra payments as I had cancelled my membership once I was out of the initial 12 month contract and paid a cancellation fee.
I have all the proofs (cancellation email and a bank account to prove that I had cancelled and paid the cancellation fee). However, the gym is now saying that the month in cancellation fee is not a 30 day month, it is a calendar month, so I effectively had to pay two months in cancellation fee, not one. Anyway, I am fighting this as we speak.
However, going through the T&C's of the membership, I noticed this clause (quote):

...Direct Debit subscriptions will be given at least 14 days notice of any changes in writing to the address provided by the member[/size]....."unqoute

Well, once, while still under the contract, the gym took from my Direct Debit 10 pounds more than it was supposed to take in membership fee. When I went to the gym to query this, they said it was a mistake, and subsequently, after a few days, they refunded this 10 pounds to my account.

Now, does it mean that they breached their own contract terms, as they have not advised me in writing (or in any way) about this change in Direct Debit.

What would have happenned if I was "sailing very close to the wind" so to speak, and if those 10 pounds took me into unauthorised overdraft (which, luckily, they didn't).

Anyway, I would love to hear from the beagles whether the gym not previously advising me of the change to my direct debit amount constitutes the breach of contract on their part.

Thank you very much, and sorry about the change of font mid post, I don't know how it happenned..:tinysmile_cry_t:

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

If you are refering to the £10

In a nutshell

1) They took an Extra £10
2) You queried this
3) They refunded the £10

There's not much to say about this, They rectified it when you brought it to their attention.

But if they didnt rectify it, and stated that it had increased by £10 from then without informing you, then you may have had a claim

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Tnank you for the very quick reply PKea,

I understand what you are saying in everyday terms, but contract wise, doesn't it still constitute the breach? It explicitly says in their contract T&C that any changes to the direct debit would be advised 14 days in writing. Well, there was a change to my direct debit, yet I was not advised in writing about it.
I understand that in everyday terms that would be a mere mistake. However, we are talking about legally binding contracts here, so I am wondering whether in legal terms this would consitute the breach, as it is explicitly written under the contracts T&C's.
After all, I am querring the ambiguosness of their cancellation T&C's, how can they say that the cancellation fee is a "months fee", when, in reality it is 2 months fee (the month of cancellation (1) and the following month (2)), but this is altogether another topic which I am currently disputing with them.
I bet that if it was me, and I underpaid them by 10 pounds, they would have considered that a breach of contract.
Just wondering...

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

If you are trying to use the £10 incident to base an argument on the cancellation charges, then forget it.

Lets just focus on the cancellation charge.

If the contract says a Month, its a month
If they wanted 30 days it should say 30 days

Have you got a copy of the terms you can scan and post up?
Then we can see exactly how they word it.

I presume that they are now just chasing you for another months fee as you have cancelled the DD.
Have you received any correspondence from them regarding this

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Hello again,

I am not basing the cancellation on £10 DD overcharge.

I cancelled the contract 6 months ago, and have only just noticed the thing with £10 DD a couple of days ago, when I was going through my bank statements again.

Why I raised the question about £10 DD is, if the gym expects people to strictly adhere to the Contract's T&Cs, then they should strictly adhere to the contract T&Cs themselves. Am I right? Doesn't that constitute the breach of contract?
I actually don't have the contract, I have never received it at the time of joining.

I was told by the membership consultant that the cancellation terms are a month cancellation fee after the initial 12 month contract has expired. On their website, though, under T&C's then says something about it going into the next month, so it is then 2 months fee, not one. I only saw this a few days ago, after I got letters from a DCA requesting some extra payments.
I sent to the DCA my cancellation email and a copy of my statement showing that I had paid a month in cancellation fee before I cancelled my DD with the gym. I am still waiting for their reply (of course, they have already threatened legal action, as expected).

So, I am not basing my gym cancellation on the above mentioned £10, as the cancellation was done many months ago and has been and ongoing issue. But, having recently noticed the DD overcharge, and the terms of their contract as quoted above, I am questioning as why they have not adhered to their contract terms themselves in terms of 14 days advance notice to me, should I apply "What's good for the goose....."
Thank you very much for taking your time to reply to my query.

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

They HAVE rectified the breach by giving you your £10 back.
Are you saying that because they breached it, you can now breach it?
I appreciate how you think regarding this, but it isnt going to help the actual issue at hand, which is their demands for an extra payment.


It is a common practice for gyms to do this type of thing with regards to cancellations, usually it is the auto renewal thing.

Can you post up the correspondence you have received, removing your personal details first.

Then we can set about helping you get this sorted

PKea

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Thanks again,

No, I am not saying that, LOL. I never intended to breach the contract, nor I believe I did. I was just asking whether they breached the contract first, that's all. Yes, they did rectify it, but, had I noticed it in time, I guess (and I say I guess, I don't know) I would have had a case for cancelling my membership then and there because they breached the contract first. When I say "had I noticed in time", I am referring to noticing their T&Cs regarding DD, I did notice the actual overcharge at the time of being overcharged, but I did not notice the quoted excerpt from their T&Cs.
But, as you say, let's go on to the issue at hand now, that they are still chasing me for outstanding monies.
I will post the corresspondence once I have a copy of my original, signed contract, which I shall request of them. In all honesty, I don't remember whether I signed it or not, but I guess I will find out soon.
On that note, under what Act can I request the copy of my contract? This was not a credit agreement as such, just an ordinary contract agreement between me and the gym.

I really appreciate the time you are taking to help me. I have never been in debt in my entire life, I have the unblemished credit record, and this really distresses me greatly to have court action threatened because of a gym membership dispute.

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Can you tell us what gym it is, then we can have a look at the current T&Cs on their website.

The DCA will threaten you with everything, thats their nature.
Many people will automatically fold and pay up once they receive a letter.
BUT the DCA need to prove the debt exists too.

You have sent a response to the DCA, so lets see what they come back with, if they actually respond to your letter.

If you can post up the letters you have received to date, then we can ready a suitable response for you.

PKea

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

I prefer to keep the gym details private at the moment, as this is an ongoing dispute, I don't want them to be able to see my enquiry by searching their name on Google. I know this sounds paranoid, and I admit, it is a bit.
Also, I joined the gym over 2 years ago, so, unless I get the original contract with T&Cs, I won't really know whether their T&Cs have changed since then. The T&Cs I am referring to are the current ones.
I have already written to the gym saying that I am not acknowledging the debt (no reply from their side yet) and I am still getting the calls from DCA (started again today, actually). But I am not taking their calls, I want them to write to me (the latest correspondence from them, several weeks ago, was that they were commencing legal action against me. After that correspondence, I sent them a copy of my cancellation email plus the copy of my bank statement. Now they are back calling again. If they have commenced legal action, why are they calling me again, why am I not getting the court papers).
I will update you with what happens, thank you very much again, Pigletto.
P.S.
How do I thank you on this forum, I can't see Thank You Button

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Well it seems you are doing everything right at present.
not acknowledging the debt, getting everything in writing,

Keep us updated on your progress.

Have a read round the forum, there is plenty of info which may help you, as well as template letters etc

PKea

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Thank you very much,

I'll definitely keep you posted.
The only thing I am not sure at the moment about is how do I go about requesting my contract, as it is not covered by the CCA Act. I am guessing here that I might be able to put SAR request, is this correct?
I have to say, it is annoying that they are calling again. I will write the letter to them to put everything in writing, too.
P.S. I have now spotted "thank you" button. Many thanks!
Also, once I have this resolved (hopefully), I intend to make a donation to this site from the money I save in fees and charges. I posted this querry on another forum, too, but I got the quickest reply here, lol.

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

You can send a SAR to request ALL information they hold for you but it will cost £10.

Personally I would wait and see what the Gym and DCA come back with first, as this can prob be resolved without the need for it

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Thank you very much again,

I don't mind paying £10, especially if that would lead to me having all the neccessary info. I would love to see my contract (if I signed it at all, I remember signing DD authorisation, but I cannot, for the life of me, remember whether I actually signed the contract as such).

But I do agree with you, I will wait to see what the response is now. I have a feeling that the letter I sent to the gym (denying the debt) got passed on to the DCA today, and hence, their calls have recommenced.
I am even thinking of taking one of those calls and demand to have everything put in writing (I have only requested this from the gym). That way I will have all the correspondence with me.
I will keep you posted, I believe that I will probably hear something very soon. Best Regards, P.
P.S.
If you don't mind, I would like to send you a short excerpt from their current T&Cs about the month's cancellation fee. I find it very ambiguous and unclear, because they say one month, but then, when they are explaining it, it turns out that it is actually 2 months. When I joined, I was verbally told that it was one month. But if you are too busy, that's O.K., I will just wait for the further developments.

[Paule]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

If you want to send any info, that you dont want on the public forum, you can PM me if you want or email me at PKea@legalbeagles.info

[pigletto]

Re: Is this the breach of contract?

Thank you very much for the offer,

I will with a very short question re: T&Cs. Otherwise, I will update everything else on the Forum, and the short conclusion at the end.