Black Horse PPI reclaim

[Bill-K]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Turbo - ignore everything else for now, and just concentrate on the 3 account statements ONLY. I have taken these as true statements of account - therefore all dates, amounts and balances are taken as factual.
Start with Loan 1.
8 payments WERE made, and WERE included in the balance owing on 01/02/07.
The loan was partially settled on 16/02/07, leaving a balance owing of £8.57.
The account was credited with £151.89 "Settlement Adj." on 19/02/07, leaving a credit balance of £143.32.
The account was finally debited with £143.32 "Refund" on 27/02/07, leaving a zero balance.
PPI was therefore charged on all 8 payments
If this final refund was actually made to D1anne separately, then we need to confirm that, and deduct £143.32 x 13.9204% = £19.95 from the £119.72 claim I put forward earlier, making the claim £99.77.

Now, the PPI 'Carry-Forward' (or 'Flowthrough' as BH have mentioned) :-
There was actually a ninth payment made on 16/02/07 toward this loan, in the form of a credit of £1879.39.
Previously, we may have claimed £261.62 as the 13.9204% PPI element of this as a part of the claim for Loan 1, but not under current FSA rules.
This £1879.39 forms a part of the total advance for Loan 2, which itself had £1142.99 PPI charged to it.
So, the total of the PPI element in Loan 2 was actually £1142.99 + £261.62 = £1404.61, which is 22.8652% of the total loan advance.

We repeat this for Loans 2 & 3.
The 'Carry-Forward' has the effect of increasing the apportionment factor in the subsequent loan(s), and the 'brought-forward' PPI is reclaimed in this way. It has the effect of increasing the claim quantum, so it is to the claimant's advantage.

the differences between your loan 3 analysis and Black Horse's are massive-----but I can't understand why

With Loan 3, the settlement was NOT made with a further BH consolidation loan, so we DO have to claim the PPI element in the settlement directly this time.
The debt was settled with a repayment of £10619.56. As 29.141% of this was PPI, then £3094.65 is due to be refunded from this.
I believe this is where BH have made their error, in that they 'Carried-Forward' the £3094.65 PPI to nowhere !!!

For simplicity, we could perhaps accept their figures for loans 1 & 2, and simply dispute loan 3's offer, as this is where the main error is, IMO. But that's up to D1anne to decide.

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

D1Anne

I am so sorry---I just cannot get my head round either Black Horses detailed explanations nor Bill's either--I have spent a few hours--but to no avail and am so frustrated

I am out of my depth I'm afraid---and I never expected to have to say that--but there you go.

However Bill--the differences between your loan 3 analysis and Black Horse's are massive-----but I can't understand why

Turbs

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Bill

re Loan 1 & 2 statements

BH refund 2 mthly payments at end--so the first line on their summary of payments would be correct --- whereas you have taken the payments without the refunded pymnts--ie Loan 1-- 6 pymnts not 8--Loan 2-- 6 pymnts not 7

omg--I got paperwork covering the table---this is easily the most complex case we have ever had with these new FSA rules/guidelines----far more complex than Pompey & Nelliewops--imo

I am struggling myself to see the wood from the trees

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

just back an hour ago--on your case(s) now--but I expect Bill has covered all bases--but I will re check the figures too

Just waiting on Turbo now to recheck bills figures then I will compose my letter of reply back to black horse, as people following this post can probably now see it is turning into a game of ping pong........ I will keep pursuing this though and see what the end up will be ( hopefully it will be in my favour ) will keep the forum updated with the latest info.

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Right--posting the 7 most important docs so others can follow this thread (one of complexity)---(put em in Photobucket for you D1Anne)

The 3 Statements:







The recent 4 page letter from BH:

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Here you go then-compressed them to make smaller file size--lol

Hmmm---unreadable-compressed them too much--I'll have another go after tea

You got facility on your scanner to scan as a PDF file D1Anne?--as that would be better

Turbo, your having a laugh arnt you ?? it took me all my time to work out how to scan the pages and attach them........... sorry I just had a look no sorry Turbo, my printer wont let me scan as pdf.......... but had a look at the files you have uploaded and other than being a bit blurred they look fine, so maybe increasing the size a little will enable others to read them. gd luck.

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Here you go then-compressed them to make smaller file size--lol

Hmmm---unreadable-compressed them too much--I'll have another go after tea

You got facility on your scanner to scan as a PDF file D1Anne?--as that would be better

EDIT--re posted them in post 99

Yes turbo that's fine, I just don't know how to but feel free to attach them to this thread on my behalf, I e mailed them to you and bill.

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

hmmm---they certainly sent you loads of stuff--as Lawrence Edward Grace ("Titus") Oates said



EDIT---D1anne--if you are comfortable posting the 4 page letter as attachments on this thread--I'm sure it would be of interest to other people following the thread too--if not---we fully respect that

Yes turbo that's fine, I just don't know how to but feel free to attach them to this thread on my behalf, I e mailed them to you and bill.

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

got gd till about 7:00--will therefore be back about 8:00--but see my EDIT LINE above too re attachments from BH

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

hmmm---they certainly sent you loads of stuff--as Lawrence Edward Grace ("Titus") Oates said

They sent me supposedly......... the workings on how they reached the decision that they owed me £1200 on there about's but looking at Bills workings it seems that they have not worked this out correctly, this is what I need to tke up with them, if you agree to how Bill has calculated it out. lol

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

hmmm---they certainly sent you loads of stuff--as Lawrence Edward Grace ("Titus") Oates said

I may be some time

EDIT---D1anne--if you are comfortable posting the 4 page letter as attachments on this thread--I'm sure it would be of interest to other people following the thread too--if not---we fully respect that

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

just back an hour ago--on your case(s) now--but I expect Bill has covered all bases--but I will re check the figures too

Thanks Turbo, look forward to hearing your thoughts.......

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

hi

missed this

will look look this aft

Thanks Turbo, look forward to hearing your thoughts.......

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

hi

missed this

will look look this aft

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Go for it, Di. It's your choice, but you might want to think about sending DSAR's first. Get the data - before they know what you might be wanting it for.

On the BH loans - here’s what I’ve got so far, now – subject to Turbo’s opinion, which I’m sure will be scathing !!! I have worked strictly from the three statements that D1anne sent earlier. Apart from the 8% SI calculation - which does need a spreadsheet - I think all of this can be checked with a basic calculator:-

Loan 1:
This was for a total of £2323.43, and 13.9204% of this amount was PPI, which came to £323.43.
According to the statement, 8 repayments of £71.66 were made, totalling £573.28. As 13.9204% of this was PPI, then a total of £79.80 in PPI was paid, and is due to be refunded.
The 8% interest on these payments comes to £39.92 as at 15/01/13.
Therefore, the refund on this loan should be £79.80 + £39.92 = £119.72

According to the statement, the balance owing was £1887.96 at the time of settlement, and £1879.39 of this was settled by carrying it forward to Loan 2. The remaining £8.57 was settled by crediting the account by £151.89, and then debiting the account by £143.32. This £8.57 appears to be the only PPI rebate that could have been made – if any rebate were made at all.

Of the £1879.39 which was carried forward to Loan 2, 13.9204% of this was PPI, which comes to £261.62.

Loan 2:
This was for a total of £6142.99, and of this, £1142.99 was a new PPI premium, and £261.62 was the PPI carried forward from the settlement of loan 1. So, the total of PPI was £1142.99 + £261.62 = £1404.61, which is 22.8652% of the total loan advance.
According to the statement, 7 repayments of £128.43 were made, totalling £899.01. As 22.8652% of this was PPI, then a total of £ of £205.56 in PPI was paid, and is due to be refunded.
The 8% interest on these payments comes to £88.44 as at 15/01/13.
Therefore, the refund on this loan should be £205.56 + £88.44 = £294.00

According to the statement, the balance owing was £5658.58 at the time of settlement, and £5009.51 of this was settled by carrying it forward to Loan 3. The remaining £649.07 was settled by crediting the account by £777.50, and then debiting the account by £128.43. This £649.07 appears to be the only PPI rebate that could have been made – if any rebate were made at all.

Of the £5009.51 which was carried forward to Loan 2, 22.8652% of this was PPI, which comes to £1145.43.

Loan 3:
This was for a total of £12496.04, and of this, £2496.04 was a new PPI premium, and £1145.43 was the PPI carried forward from the settlement of loan 2. So, the total of PPI was £2496.04 + £1145.43 = £3641.47, which is 29.141% of the total loan advance.
According to the statement, 1 repayment of £263.05 was made. As 29.141% of this was PPI, then a total of £ of £76.66 in PPI was paid, and is due to be refunded.
The 8% interest on this payment comes to £30.41 as at 15/01/13.

According to the statement, the balance owing was £12430.96 at the time of settlement, and £10619.56 of this was settled by a cash repayment. The remaining £1811.40 was settled by crediting the account by £2074.45, and then debiting the account by £263.05. This £1811.40 appears to be the only PPI rebate that could have been made – if any rebate were made at all.

The debt was settled with a repayment of £10619.56. As 29.141% of this was PPI, then £3094.65 is due to be refunded.
The 8% interest on this PPI payment comes to £1220.22 as at 15/01/13.
Therefore, the refund on this loan should be £76.66 + £3094.65 + 30.41 + 1220.22 = £4421.94

So, totalling all 3 loans, we have £119.72 + £294.00 + £4421.94 = £4835.66
BH have offered £1199.11, which is £3636.55 less than it seems D1anne is entitled to.
If we deduct 20% Income Tax from the 8% SI (£275.80), their offer is still £3360.75 short, IMO.

It seems to me that the main problem here is that they have disregarded the settlement payment in Loan 3, and therefore the PPI contained within it.

FTAO Turbo, Have you had a chance to check BIlls info posted here ?? If so whats your thoughts ???