Black Horse PPI reclaim

[Bill-K]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Looking at Loan 2, BH have remembered to add the 'Brought-Forward' PPI of £121.87 (their calculation), but they appear to have completely forgotten to add the new PPI of £1142.99 which has been charged on the new loan. So Loan 2 is entirely wrong IMO. Again, taking the "SETTLEMENT ADJ." of £777.50 as a PPI Rebate, and using their own 'Brought-Forward' PPI of £121.87, I calculate a PPI refund of £228.80 is due and £253.97 PPI to be carried forward to Loan 3. Revised spready attached.

EDIT: BH have not completely forgotten to add the new PPI - but they HAVE forgotten to include it in the apportionment ratio, and therefore have omitted it from the 'carry-forward' PPI amount.

BH have offered £227.54, BUT they calculate that £396.59 PPI is carried forward to loan 3, whereas I have calculated it to be £253.97. So - if you are going to accept that the £777.50 was a PPI rebate, then their offer is better than my calculation. Again, however, THEIR figure for the rebate is £799.47 - and there is no such amount shown in the statement.

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Well done, and thanks, Turbo.

Taking Loan 1, which was for £2000.00, with £323.43 PPI added. To calculate the PPI apportionment, we simply divide the PPI amount (323.43) by the total loan amount (2323.43), and this comes to 0.139203677 on my calculator, which is 13.9203677%. Excel has rounded this up to 13.9204%. How they calculate it to be 13.9123% is beyond me - but hardly worth arguing over.

They say "At the point of settlement, an early settlement rebate of £162.39 was applied in reduction of the balance of PPI owed..."
The point of settlement was 16/02/07. There is NO entry in the statement of an early settlement rebate, or even a PPI rebate, nor of a sum of £162.39. So - if the statement is a true statement of account, then this £162.39 rebate is fiction. However, THREE DAYS after the point of settlement there is a sum of £151.89 credited as "SETTLEMENT ADJ." There is NO mention of the words, "early," "rebate," or "PPI." It must therefore be something OTHER than a PPI rebate, and has been taken for what it is described as - and presumably a reward for early settlement of the loan. But arguing that this is not a PPI rebate will probably just prolong the agony, and I doubt if the the FOS would accept our argument that it isn't. So, I'm inclined to accept their loan 1 calculation, but with £151.89 as the "PPI Rebate." This will have the effect of reducing the PPI claim in Loan 2.

EDIT: Extra stuff. I have modified Loan 1 spreadsheet to show the £151.89 Settlement Adj. as a PPI rebate. This reduces the PPI 'Carry-Forward' to £109.73. However, if we accept BH's calculations for Loan 1, then we accept THEIR calculation that £121.87 is carried forward - which is better for us. So I propose that we accept their Loan 1 calcs. Revised spready attached:-

Thanks so far Bill, I presume you are looking at the rest of the info they have given in comparison to your calculations ?? I suppose what I need to know is bottom line, is this still worth fighting over and if I go back to them or down FOS route, do I have a leg to stand on given that ill have to wait a year on their reply, if it is thought for one min that BH calculations are way out like calculations showed before I believe this is worth fighting for....... can you understand where they are coming from and how they get to the figure they quote ?? or are they trying to offer less than they should ??

[Bill-K]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Well done, and thanks, Turbo.

Taking Loan 1, which was for £2000.00, with £323.43 PPI added. To calculate the PPI apportionment, we simply divide the PPI amount (323.43) by the total loan amount (2323.43), and this comes to 0.139203677 on my calculator, which is 13.9203677%. Excel has rounded this up to 13.9204%. How they calculate it to be 13.9123% is beyond me - but hardly worth arguing over.

They say "At the point of settlement, an early settlement rebate of £162.39 was applied in reduction of the balance of PPI owed..."
The point of settlement was 16/02/07. There is NO entry in the statement of an early settlement rebate, or even a PPI rebate, nor of a sum of £162.39. So - if the statement is a true statement of account, then this £162.39 rebate is fiction. However, THREE DAYS after the point of settlement there is a sum of £151.89 credited as "SETTLEMENT ADJ." There is NO mention of the words, "early," "rebate," or "PPI." It must therefore be something OTHER than a PPI rebate, and has been taken for what it is described as - and presumably a reward for early settlement of the loan. But arguing that this is not a PPI rebate will probably just prolong the agony, and I doubt if the the FOS would accept our argument that it isn't. So, I'm inclined to accept their loan 1 calculation, but with £151.89 as the "PPI Rebate." This will have the effect of reducing the PPI claim in Loan 2.

EDIT: Extra stuff. I have modified Loan 1 spreadsheet to show the £151.89 Settlement Adj. as a PPI rebate. This reduces the PPI 'Carry-Forward' to £109.73. However, if we accept BH's calculations for Loan 1, then we accept THEIR calculation that £121.87 is carried forward - which is better for us. So I propose that we accept their Loan 1 calcs. Revised spready attached:-

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Right--just back--will load up letter for all to see in photobucket

Be back later in evening after digested implications D1anne--Bill---feel free to post your analysis

EDIT---personal details still in--will edit them out for you






Turbs

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

I have had a quick look and note that bh say the term REBATE " is a PPi REFUND

Will load em to photobucjet later for all to see and comment

Turbs

I am prepared to reply back for one last time to them, and IF required go down the ombudsman router but may need some assistance to get the info gathered that they can understand and hopefully agree with. but will await and see what yourself and Bill make of there comments first.

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

I have had a quick look and note that bh say the term REBATE " is a PPi REFUND

Will load em to photobucjet later for all to see and comment

Turbs

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Ok..on phone internet ..
Will reply around 5-6 ish when i get home from York

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

I have now received a reply from black horse, they are insistent that there calculations and offer are correct and have gone into a detailed explanation on how they have worked this out, I will scan there reply and send it to Bill and turbo and they can post on here and reply with what they think.

I have e mailed this to bill and turbo and await there response.

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

I have now received a reply from black horse, they are insistent that there calculations and offer are correct and have gone into a detailed explanation on how they have worked this out, I will scan there reply and send it to Bill and turbo and they can post on here and reply with what they think.

[gillwall]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Fingers crossed for you D1anne.
Gill x

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

UPDATE : Have just come off the phone chasing black horse for a reply, they told me a letter was posted to me yesterday.......... the person I spoke to on the phone couldn't tell me what was in the letter......... I now wait in anticipation for it to drop through my letterbox...... will keep the forum updated when I receive it and will work out my next move.........

[d1anne]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

I agree - that could well be the case. It would have the same effect as the theory I put forward earlier, but your explanation that it was treated as an active loan makes better sense to me. It is strange that - although they explained example 8 (or their understanding of it) - they didn't mention re-scheduling in their letter. We may need to watch out for this in future.

Thanks once again bill and Turbo for your comments, I, as stated in my last post, have replied to black horse once again almost 2 weeks ago, have heard nothing back from them, will give them to the start of next week then ill be back on chasing them as by then the 14 day dead line for a reply from them I stated in my last reply, will be past. as always, ill keep you posted.

[Bill-K]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

BUT....I think....they have attempted to interpret Example 8 (albeit an odd way of +'s & -'s)..but have failed to spot that this example is "an active loan" where the residual PPI balance is written off and the loan reverts back to the balance that would have been without PPI

Hence the enormous shortfall in their offer of redress

I agree - that could well be the case. It would have the same effect as the theory I put forward earlier, but your explanation that it was treated as an active loan makes better sense to me. It is strange that - although they explained example 8 (or their understanding of it) - they didn't mention re-scheduling in their letter. We may need to watch out for this in future.

With Loan 3, the settlement was NOT made with a further BH consolidation loan, so we DO have to claim the PPI element in the settlement directly this time.
The debt was settled with a repayment of £10619.56. As 29.141% of this was PPI, then £3094.65 is due to be refunded from this.
I believe this is where BH have made their error, in that they 'Carried-Forward' the £3094.65 PPI to nowhere !!!

[Turboman]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Excellent Bill---but what you think of this theory???

Been looking again at example 8 here

Example 8 FSA PS10/12 page 119

Black Horse are saying all the right things in their letter here in post 99

Main attachments for this thread

BUT....I think....they have attempted to interpret Example 8 (albeit an odd way of +'s & -'s)..but have failed to spot that this example is "an active loan" where the residual PPI balance is written off and the loan reverts back to the balance that would have been without PPI

Hence the enormous shortfall in their offer of redress

[Bill-K]

Re: Black Horse PPI reclaim

Well done with that, Turbo. I have altered my spreadies to show the refunded payments, and to show the amended claim date, and they agree 100% with yours !!!