PPI and Court

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

CAG also makes mistake of assuming interest is Linear (ie constant) which it is not

No--PF

Everyone of your agreements can be done like Marshy said--I'll post up my SS for Loan 2 & Loan 8 in a min to show you & also the calculation sheets for those 2--I was going to leave it until I get the thread Understanding PPI Calculations -- Settled Loans--but seeing its topical discussion here at the moment--I'll post your actual loan solutions--Obviously, in this particular case, me & Marshy soon agree as its relatively simple--but its cos all your loans were fixed rate rather than variable

Since I've been working with Marshy , I've realised that perhaps because we've (Bill & me) been on top of the subject so much , we've (me & Bill) may perhaps have been too clever in our formulas, and effectively hidden some of the logic-so people can't see the audit tail

As Marshy was (hope thats the right word-lol) reluctant to look at our SS--I have completely revamped them so they show all the intermediate steps just like how Marshy works--the advantage of the SS approach of course is speed and the ability to cater for missed payments,erratic payments and constant increase in the monthly pymnt due to % increases -like FirstPlus)--a situation which then makes pen & paper cumbersome. In the future, Marshy is going to be our sounding board & a 3rd member of the Simiantics Team

The same principle as Marshy uses is embedded in our SS but we call it the Apportionment Factor (no claim on originality, it suddenly clicked to me on MSE with discussions with Marshy & Tigrae and we've used the principal ever since, & simplified our whole approach.

Be back soon

Turbo

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Right here's the 2 Calculation sheets for Loan 1 & Loan 2





These are from the Co-op to the FOS--the handwritten bits are FOS comments

Here's the SS I have used for these 2 loans





Right--we'll do the explainind in Loan 2

The key figure re Apportionment of the key cell L which contains 18.63%
This is derived as Marshy has said-by dividing the PPI Loan of 689.85 by the TOTAL Loan of 3689.58---we show the % attributable to just the Cash Advance as 81.37% for completeness--but we don't need it

Now the red highlighted cells are the impertant ones

Normally I would work from the Loan statements with the actual settlement figure-but we ain't got any-so Marshy gives me the projected figure with PPI & without PPI using a Rule of 78 calculation website--these are highligted in L11 & L121

I bang 15 in L8 which is the number of payments made & the SS opens out instantly and tells us £239.66 was the PPI element (see I am multiplying the total payment of £85.76 by the 18.63%--

It simultaneously calculates 8% interest at 178.83

SO far in refunds line we have done Scheduled Monthly

Next the PPI part of the Settlement figure to pay off loan (this is usually where the big refund is)--560.83 by subtracting the 2 Rule of 78 figures- less refund of 340.27 already given--8%on 240.36 = 166.58

Total--825-ish (26 more than theirs--but that will be cos I'vetaken my 8% date later than theirs

Once I got this SS--every other one was easy

Shout if anybody wants to discuss (will be repeated in OUR Understanding thread of course-& we will tackle variable rates & eratic arrears)

Turbo

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

In the future, Marshy is going to be our sounding board & a 3rd member of the Simiantics Team



Be back soon

Turbo

Arh Turbo, thanks xx

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

Good explanations Marshy & Turbo. Also a good point about making the calculations easier to follow, for those who want to do this.

The problem I found with the CAG sheet was that it didn't actually calculate very much. It was used more as a 'list' for the figures, and all it seemed to really do was add them up. The core PPI calculations seem to have been done on a calculator or abacus, and then the results were just punched in to the spready. No audit trail, as Turbo implies.

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Hi PF--I'll just up date, if I may, for the folks following your thread

In posts 417-423 we deduced the co-op figures were ok - except there was an issue with loan 1 where there was a "possibility" of substantial extra refunds if it could be proved PF paid a Settlement figure--but evidence not available

PfF sent new DSAR for Loan Statements

Accordingly, taking into account the current position and previous stress to PF, Marshy, Wendy & myself advised on calling it a day & accepting

Bill's view was to wait for the DSAR & hang on in there.

PF has (in post 353) got an extension on his decision from FOS to 15/12/2010 and the DSAR has until 15/11/2010 to be fulfilled

PF has now decided, as the DSAR is in motion, to wait to see if anything comes out of the woodwork in the DSAR before committing himself

Thinks that's the current position PF

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Spot on could not have explained it better Thank You :beagle:

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Good explanations Marshy & Turbo. Also a good point about making the calculations easier to follow, for those who want to do this.

The problem I found with the CAG sheet was that it didn't actually calculate very much. It was used more as a 'list' for the figures, and all it seemed to really do was add them up. The core PPI calculations seem to have been done on a calculator or abacus, and then the results were just punched in to the spready. No audit trail, as Turbo implies.

Bill--thanks for your support here & in all technical issues previously

I would just like to emphasise that I am (from now ) both here & in MSE & PCF & PAG etc not going to bother to waste my time in countering arguments from other sites

( I have been stretched too much & both Bill & others have made me restrain")

We here (LB & you & the addition of our friend Marshy ( are quite capable of discussing internally &interpreting FOS & new Policy Docs re sums)--we have been diverted here ( & elsewhere) with red herrings!

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

Agreed, mate. We do what we do to the best of our ability. Others - presumably - do the same. This isn't a commercial enterprise, so we are not trying to generate business, and there is no need to promote ourselves in that respect.

But we are here to try and ensure that peeps get what they are entitled to, and in that respect I guess we tend to 'crusade' somewhat. I grieve for those who suffer at the hands of self-appointed gurus. At least the likes of you and I - and dear Marshy - do our best to research this stuff. I feel we do it because we get a buzz from genuinely helping peeps - as opposed to getting a few more psi pumped into our ego's.

But if I'm wrong, then 'pop' me with a pin - and listen to the noise I make as I deflate !!!

Sure. You're right. Let's keep focussed.

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Whats tinypic Marshy

& why you got 2 tellies

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Right PF--we need to be thinking what we are going to do if DSAR don't come tomorrow--

get ICO involved or whatever ? --Long drawn out process I suspect

FOS deadline is 15/12/2010 don't forget -- so if you want money for Xmas -- need to get a result or accept the offer well before then

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

Whats tinypic Marshy

& why you got 2 tellies

Its when we had friends round and we connected their laptop to our TV.

Tinypic is like "photo bucket" type thing. If i remove the piccies from there then they are removed from here also.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Right PF--we need to be thinking what we are going to do if DSAR don't come tomorrow--

get ICO involved or whatever ? --Long drawn out process I suspect

FOS deadline is 15/12/2010 don't forget -- so if you want money for Xmas -- need to get a result or accept the offer well before then

Do you think the ICO CAN get involved in documents from that long ago? Does the data protection act allow this? I thought they only legally had to keep records for 6 maybe 7 years? Would be happy to be corrected here?

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Ah--same as Photobucket---Sorry PF--but you know me-lol
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Its when we had friends round and we connected their laptop to our TV.

Tinypic is like "photo bucket" type thing. If i remove the piccies from there then they are removed from here also.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Do you think the ICO CAN get involved in documents from that long ago? Does the data protection act allow this? I thought they only legally had to keep records for 6 maybe 7 years? Would be happy to be corrected here?

Dunno Marshy--Di might know

[marshallka]

Re: PPI and Court

Ah--same as Photobucket---Sorry PF--but you know me-lol
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------


Dunno Marshy--Di might know

Perhaps... you will have to give her a nudge to post up then.

[di30]

Re: PPI and Court

Hiya, just came back now and received your pm Turbo.

Is this in regards of the ICO?

[Turboman]

Re: PPI and Court

Yes--what do we do next if non compliant?