Marstons and Liverpool city Council

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

That name just does not ring any bells..

It wasn't Quasimodo by any chance? They probably got the hump.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

maybe she got a new job with Avon!

What, inflating aircraft tyres at Avon Rubber Works?

[TopBoy]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

Regulation 45 of the The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 states:

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

This is something I have queried in the past - the above quote from the regs does not state that the l/o has to be shown, only the written authority of the l/a. Is there another section that "clearly states" the l/o must be shown? I have 1 friend who owes ft who has queried this and being told the same - I asked another friend who worked as a bsiliff for 3 years who also told me that there is no requirement for them to carry the l/o - he even went as far as to say he had never seen an l/o and wouldn't know what one looked like.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

This is something I have queried in the past - the above quote from the regs does not state that the l/o has to be shown, only the written authority of the l/a. Is there another section that "clearly states" the l/o must be shown? I have 1 friend who owes ft who has queried this and being told the same - I asked another friend who worked as a bsiliff for 3 years who also told me that there is no requirement for them to carry the l/o - he even went as far as to say he had never seen an l/o and wouldn't know what one looked like.

Certificated bailiffs rely on debtors not knowing the law, which is why they get away with so much. A bailiff who does not have a copy of the LO with them and/or refuses to show a copy of the LO or Reg. 45 is not only a fool, as the LO is their proof they are acting with lawful authority, any copper who is switched-on and familiar with bailiff law - not many at the moment, but the number is slowly increasing - and gets the same BS is going to order them to leave or, if necessary, forcibly remove them. And it won't be with the toe of their boot either. This happened to two Ross & Roberts bailiffs, in Hamsphire, during 2012, only they left without force having to be used. One of them subsequently had their certificate revoked without a Form 4 complaint or hearing and the other, who was a trainee and uncertificated, was sacked.

[TopBoy]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

Certificated bailiffs rely on debtors not knowing the law, which is why they get away with so much. A bailiff who does not have a copy of the LO with them and/or refuses to show a copy of the LO or Reg. 45 is not only a fool, as the LO is their proof they are acting with lawful authority, any copper who is switched-on and familiar with bailiff law - not many at the moment, but the number is slowly increasing - and gets the same BS is going to order them to leave or, if necessary, forcibly remove them. And it won't be with the toe of their boot either. This happened to two Ross & Roberts bailiffs, in Hamsphire, during 2012, only they left without force having to be nmmused.One of them subsequently hadtheir certificate revoked without a Form 4 complaint or hearing and the other, who was a trainee and uncertificated, was sacked.

sorry if this sound repetetive, but this reply does not adrress the question asked. The revs appear to state that the bailiff needs written authority if the l/a - it doesn't appear to mention the l/o. I'm specifically after the section that "clearly states" that the bailiff must produce/have in his possession the l/o.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

sorry if this sound repetetive, but this reply does not adrress the question asked. The revs appear to state that the bailiff needs written authority if the l/a - it doesn't appear to mention the l/o. I'm specifically after the section that "clearly states" that the bailiff must produce/have in his possession the l/o.

The LO is the written authorisation to collect the amount owing. Who a local authority appoint to collect the amount owing is a matter for the local authority. If they use their own bailiffs or a contracted bailiff firm, the bailiff has to be able to prove they are acting under lawful authority for their own protection and that of the creditor.

Don't forget that creditors are 100% vicariously-liable for the actions of their appointed enforcement agents, whether the creditor is a private individual, a major corporation or a local authority.

Reg 45 is a safeguard against abuse. Reg 46 is a remedy against abuse. On the bailiff's first visit, they should have a copy of the LO with them to prove they are acting under lawful authority and of the amount owing.

Legislation, whatever its purpose, will always have stops and checks incorporated into it to prevent abuse and protect the enforcer, the offender and the innocent. In civil enforcement, there will be stops and checks in applicable legislation to protect the creditor, their enforcement agent and the debtor.

[labman]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

This is what my council states:

5.4. Any representative of the Enforcement Agent attending premises must carry proof of his or her identity (in the form of an identity card including a photograph) and written authorisation to act on behalf of the Council at all times.

It does not specify the LO anywhere. Indeed, given the LO's are processed in bulk hearings, I'd be very surprised if they could produce the specific LO for one person.

[ploddertom]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

This is what my council states:

5.4. Any representative of the Enforcement Agent attending premises must carry proof of his or her identity (in the form of an identity card including a photograph) and written authorisation to act on behalf of the Council at all times.

It does not specify the LO anywhere. Indeed, given the LO's are processed in bulk hearings, I'd be very surprised if they could produce the specific LO for one person.

I'd agree that is the most likely way it is done.

[charitynjw]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

I thought I read somewhere that they didn't need to have the LO on them, but needed to tell the debtor where they could view it.

I could be (& often am!) wrong on this.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

This is what my council states:

5.4. Any representative of the Enforcement Agent attending premises must carry proof of his or her identity (in the form of an identity card including a photograph) and written authorisation to act on behalf of the Council at all times.

It does not specify the LO anywhere. Indeed, given the LO's are processed in bulk hearings, I'd be very surprised if they could produce the specific LO for one person.

Strictly speaking, Labman, the bailiff should have proof that he/she has a right to be at a CT debtor's home. If not, potentially, they are trespassing and liable to be asked to leave or removed. Although the LOs are processed at bulk hearings - if you can call them that - the local authority still has to produce proof to the CT debtor that a court has adjudged that person to be liable and authorised the local authority to collect/enforce what is owed. It goes back to what I have said in an earlier post, there are stops and checks incorporated into legislation to protect all parties involved.

[waynedear]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

I received a call from Jules at 7pm today, 18.30 there is a knock at the door, a lady from Liverpool city council, our housing officer (we did not know we had one) she has called at this time as she knows we both work.
She apologises a few times and informs us that Marstons are no longer on our case and will we kindly reduce our council tax/arrears payments there has been a 'mix up' they can see we have done everything by the book and there has been an error at their end and they can see that they made no attempt to contact us, she says she will be back in a few days with everything in writing..

Now we have no axe to grind with her and frankly it is nothing to do with her, some spineless winker in a position of power has dropped her in it.

No i find it funny that we owed them 7/9/11 years council tax and had baillifs at the door then all of a sudden (well as soon as our letter dropped on their doormat and the MP collared their financial director) they are at our door very, very quickly apologising, hmmmm, methinks they know we have them.
Obviously we will wait and see what is put in writing before we do anything else.

[labman]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

Fingers crossed for a good result for you.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

I received a call from Jules at 7pm today, 18.30 there is a knock at the door, a lady from Liverpool city council, our housing officer (we did not know we had one) she has called at this time as she knows we both work.

She apologises a few times and informs us that Marstons are no longer on our case and will we kindly reduce our council tax/arrears payments there has been a 'mix up' they can see we have done everything by the book and there has been an error at their end and they can see that they made no attempt to contact us, she says she will be back in a few days with everything in writing.
Full marks to Liverpool City Council for admitting they made a mistake and apologising for that mistake. However, they now need to identify who in their workforce made that mistake and which resulted in Marstons becoming involved.
Now we have no axe to grind with her and frankly it is nothing to do with her, some spineless winker in a position of power has dropped her in it.
I can just picture the front page of the Liverpool Echo - Council Worker Murders Colleague for Council Tax Cock-Up
No i find it funny that we owed them 7/9/11 years council tax and had bailiffs at the door then all of a sudden (well as soon as our letter dropped on their doormat and the MP collared their financial director) they are at our door very, very quickly apologising, hmmmm, methinks they know we have them.

Obviously we will wait and see what is put in writing before we do anything else.

If your MP gave LCC's Finance Director an earful, that is probably the reason things changed so quickly. Then again, Eric Pickles may have threatened to sit on them as well.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

Hope all now is sorted.

[waynedear]

Re: Marstons and Liverpool city Council

@ bluebottle, i assume lots of truth or very close to it in the 'Red type'

Ta for the advice and support, i will let you know what they put in writing....