That referendum ...

[Amethyst]

Re: That referendum ...

Bloody local shop has closed down and none of the cash machines in the village are working.... probably completely unrelated but with Iceland beating us and fricking #Brexit I'm blaming Boris & Nigel for EVERYTHING.

[Guest]

Re: That referendum ...

And now England are out of the Euro's......I blame the politicians who like the England team were in complete disarray!!(had to get that one in )

They could use that as an excuse, that they were worried about the effects of Brexit on their lives and careers so they couldn't keep their eye on the ball.

[enaid]

Re: That referendum ...

Suppose Iceland will be the next shop to feel the wrath of the Brits, as some seem to take defeat very badly lol.
My point about bigger is not always best is proven, as Iceland with a population no bigger than a London suburb thwacks us at our national game.

[leclerc]

Re: That referendum ...

Roy Hodgson has been touted for the next PM, after all, he can get England out of Europe in 90 minutes not 2 years

[enaid]

Re: That referendum ...

Roy Hodgson has been touted for the next PM, after all, he can get England out of Europe in 90 minutes not 2 years

But just like Cameron and many more, no backbone whatsoever and when things get a tad tough they just pack in.
Me thinks it's time women took the lead but not Ms May please lol

[Amethyst]

Re: That referendum ...

Good summary of the Norway etc model of EU non-membership. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36639261

[Openlaw15]

Re: That referendum ...

That's all very well but when the various treaties were signed, the sovereignty surrendered was on a temporary basis. It has always been possible for the UK to walk away from the EU and retake sovereignty.

The EU may be unique in that it is the worlds only supranational organisation but it has helped to secure peace and democracy in Europe. I am sure you are aware of the democratic thesis - democratic countries do not go to war against each other

Germany made war in 1914 and again in 1939 and in the second world war (the great war) killed around 6 million Jews and many disabled people, which interestingly the Nazis got their eugenic ideas from the British and the Americans. IBM are said to have controlled the efficiency of the Nazi trains to the death camps: https://mic.com/articles/142991/edwi...ory#.lMure3RjD German judges signed the disabled's death certificates. Who funded this war; all of this, am guessing a few prominent American eugenics, and of course the European bankers.

I find it difficult that Germany after its atrocities in the 2nd world war is still the dominant country in the EU. In terms of law 1939 is not too distant. Germany should hold its head in shame, even to this day, they have a short memory. So stop all this rhetoric that the EU provides peace - not many countries would commit war in the modern era, not in the EU areas anyway. So this argument for EU and democracy is a little dated. The EU may stop Germany, Italy, and Austria from making war but countries like the UK do not make war in the modern era. France was neutral - the other countries in the EU are not too relevant. The IRA was funded by the USA and its war is separate to the EU. The IRA, and ISIS for that matter, are entirely different. Simply put warring countries seek war by its nature to control Germany is no exception.

[Kati]

Re: That referendum ...

The EU may stop Germany, Italy, and Austria from making war but countries like the UK do not make war in the modern era. France was neutral - the other countries in the EU are not too relevant.

Speaking from personal experience (and adding a WIKI link because I can ) I have to disagree with your take here OL ... Austria is not a warring country. They declared themselves a neutral country in 1955 (and it is entrenched in the country's constitution (2nd WIKI link :lol.

Therefore, you saying that the EU stops it from making war is wrong.

EDIT:

Germany made war in 1914 and again in 1939 and in the second world war (the great war)

:sorry: OL ... you're wrong again. It is WW1 that is known as the Great War - http://www.greatwar.co.uk (WIKI link)

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

Germany made war in 1914 and again in 1939 and in the second world war (the great war)

My dad said it was fascism we were all fighting in ww11, nationalism had crept in to a number of country's, including ours, the black shirts, ww1 was the royals, ww11 was fascism

disabled people, which interestingly the Nazis got their eugenic ideas from the British and the Americans.

Your an authority on that are you, perhaps you could provide some RELEVANT data.

I find it difficult that Germany after its atrocities in the 2nd world war is still the dominant country in the EU

Why would you say that, and if was fascists that did that in ww11, we had them here as well as most of EU did, Nationalism swept into control by people playing on fear and misinformation

Germany should hold its head in shame, even to this day, they have a short memory

The Irish, Scottish and welsh forgave us, so did most of the rest of the world, good job china doesn't keep grudges

. So stop all this rhetoric that the EU provides peace - not many countries would commit war in the modern era, not in the EU areas anyway. So this argument for EU and democracy is a little dated. The EU may stop Germany, Italy, and Austria from making war but countries like the UK do not make war in the modern era. France was neutral - the other countries in the EU are not too relevant.

phew am so glad thats all sorted and now-one could be pushed into war ( RUSSIA ) perhaps we should have had openlaw for EU president, no wars because no one would ever be able to fully understand what hes saying after reading a paragraph

The IRA was funded by the USA and its war is separate to the EU. The IRA, and ISIS for that matter, are entirely different. Simply put warring countries seek war by its nature to control Germany is no exception.

Do you live in the same country i do, or indeed, on the same plane of existence.

@openlaw there are a lot of sour people on both sides of this, some of the items you mention there are VERY subjective to people.

[Openlaw15]

Re: That referendum ...

Speaking from personal experience (and adding a WIKI link because I can ) I have to disagree with your take here OL ... Austria is not a warring country. They declared themselves a neutral country in 1955 (and it is entrenched in the country's constitution (2nd WIKI link :lol.

Therefore, you saying that the EU stops it from making war is wrong.

Katy, i was just making a point that there are certain warring countries such as Germany...based on correlations, ie it twice started a world war. It's leaders wanted to enslave the world and be run by the Aarian race. I believe Austria was on Germany's side, as was several other countries.

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My dad said it was fascism we were all fighting in ww11, nationalism had crept in to a number of country's, including ours, the black shirts, ww1 was the royals, ww11 was fascism



Your an authority on that are you, perhaps you could provide some RELEVANT data.



Why would you say that, and if was fascists that did that in ww11, we had them here as well as most of EU did, Nationalism swept into control by people playing on fear and misinformation



The Irish, Scottish and welsh forgave us, so did most of the rest of the world, good job china doesn't keep grudges



phew am so glad thats all sorted and now-one could be pushed into war ( RUSSIA ) perhaps we should have had openlaw for EU president, no wars because no one would ever be able to fully understand what hes saying after reading a paragraph



Do you live in the same country i do, or indeed, on the same plane of existence.

@openlaw there are a lot of sour people on both sides of this, some of the items you mention there are VERY subjective to people.

My point is that saying the EU stops wars is rhetoric. I could supply all the data you want but the question is do you have time to read it all. No is the answer.

[nemesis45]

Re: That referendum ...

Fascism and nationalism are very different thing.

nem

[Crazy council]

Re: That referendum ...

My point is that saying the EU stops wars is rhetoric. I could supply all the data you want but the question is do you have time to read it all. No is the answer.

your correct there, at least about one part. You should be in politics ( am not serious btw ), did you notice what you did there, you stated some facts, i challenged them, you just said, your correct because i wouldnt understand..... classic, does your understanding of ww11 come from american TV, or spoken family history

[Kati]

Re: That referendum ...

Katy, i was just making a point that there are certain warring countries such as Germany...based on correlations, ie it twice started a world war. It's leaders wanted to enslave the world and be run by the Aarian race. I believe Austria was on Germany's side, as was several other countries.

Yes ... Hitler himself was an Austrian. He made a lot of the population believe in the Aryan race and the devastation after the wars was one of the reasons for the founding of the EU (http://europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/index_en.htm). Our own Winston Churchill was one of the "founding fathers" of the EU - http://europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history...x_en.htm#box_4

Winston Churchill

calling for a United States of Europe

Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all.

I was just pointing out that AUSTRIA was the wrong choice of country for you to use as an example

[des8]

Re: That referendum ...

Katy, i was just making a point that there are certain warring countries such as Germany...based on correlations, ie it twice started a world war. It's leaders wanted to enslave the world and be run by the Aarian race. I believe Austria was on Germany's side, as was several other countries.

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No it didn't... Austro Hungarian Empire started WW1



My point is that saying the EU stops wars is rhetoric. I could supply all the data you want but the question is do you have time to read it all. No is the answer.

I think your take on history is so simplistic it should be found in an edition of Horrible Histories.
and for every item of "data" you provide I bet there is an alternative.
You may have studied law at some point,but history never!!!!!!!!

[EXC]

Re: That referendum ...

I believe Austria was on Germany's side

They were but not out of choice.

At this point, Schuschnigg was ushered back in to see Hitler. "You will either sign it as it is and fulfill my demands within three days, or I will order the march into Austria," Hitler told him.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar...tr-austria.htm