** DiScOnTinUeD ** BC/Lowell V Kelike28 ** WON **

[Tigger74]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

File it with your other papers, they are trying to get a payment arrangement out of you but since they still haven't produced docs you should just stand your ground and wait

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

Any ideas please

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

After defence and before allocation should be okay although there's the issue of CPR 31.14 not applying in small claims track. The problem is the Judges are so varied in handling these applications. Our thoughts are the 31.14 should go in before defence, as you are asking for information to enable you to defend or admit the debt. We've had a couple people go into court for application hearings to be told they should enter a defence and wait for allocation to enter the application - and be threatened with costs - which seems bananas to me because 31.14 is excluded from small claims so its going to be a waste of an application. And we've had people go with just a defence and have very similar orders back for the claimant to provide inspection of the documents. As well as having people go with just the application, who get the order, non compliance and case struck out. Its a bit too variable to use it as a standard response to a moneyclaim with vague POC's. It is being discussed all over the shop (forum even) and you have to look at each case individually and take the defendants own circumstances into account where possible.

Hi Amethyst,

Received letter today from BC stating" L wish to proceed with the claim at this time, and they also agree in principe to mediation", then ending " we should also be grateful to hear from you in relation to without prejudice negotiations" no signs of anything asked for in my original request to them.

[Amethyst]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

After defence and before allocation should be okay although there's the issue of CPR 31.14 not applying in small claims track. The problem is the Judges are so varied in handling these applications. Our thoughts are the 31.14 should go in before defence, as you are asking for information to enable you to defend or admit the debt. We've had a couple people go into court for application hearings to be told they should enter a defence and wait for allocation to enter the application - and be threatened with costs - which seems bananas to me because 31.14 is excluded from small claims so its going to be a waste of an application. And we've had people go with just a defence and have very similar orders back for the claimant to provide inspection of the documents. As well as having people go with just the application, who get the order, non compliance and case struck out. Its a bit too variable to use it as a standard response to a moneyclaim with vague POC's. It is being discussed all over the shop (forum even) and you have to look at each case individually and take the defendants own circumstances into account where possible.

[Tigger74]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

We're not doing the N244 application for small claims because, basically, the courts aren't dealing with them properly (in our view), unless you happen to have the £155 and can afford to lose it, but you should still file a defence as well.

Amethyst, it is true to say that to get an order with a hearing is £155 however CCBC are happy to deal with the N244 without a hearing which is £50 and I don't see how the courts are not dealing with them properly? Having just gone down this route I can only recommend it, I have had a much swifter outcome (BC dropped the case 2 days before the Directives Order expired) and they have now paid my costs.

Can an application to provide docs be submitted after defence has been submitted

I submitted my N244 3 weeks after I had submitted my defence, if I had just relied on the defence I would still be waiting as it was only just about to be transferred to my local court

[ohitsonlyme]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

Yes indeed.

We're not doing the N244 application for small claims because, basically, the courts aren't dealing with them properly (in our view), unless you happen to have the £155 and can afford to lose it, but you should still file a defence as well.

How are the courts not dealing properly with applications to provide?

Can an application to provide docs be submitted after defence has been submitted

Is it better to wait for the court to order provision of docs from the defence?

Should this application be go against what other costs could come back to the defendant

Onlyme again

[Amethyst]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

Yes indeed.

We're not doing the N244 application for small claims because, basically, the courts aren't dealing with them properly (in our view), unless you happen to have the £155 and can afford to lose it, but you should still file a defence as well.

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

You don't need to send copies of letters although I do think its a good idea to send a copy of your CPR and CCA requests with it, and no need to contact BC, they know the deadline.

They'll have a month or so to respond to court as to whether they wish to continue.

So no kind of order? Or money to be paid? Just the defence and copies of cca and cpr....
Thanks again

[Amethyst]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

You don't need to send copies of letters although I do think its a good idea to send a copy of your CPR and CCA requests with it, and no need to contact BC, they know the deadline.

They'll have a month or so to respond to court as to whether they wish to continue.

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

4. The Defendant believes this claim may relate to a LOAN / CREDIT CARD / BANK ACCOUNT / MOBILE PHONE etc with but without further details is unable to be certain.

Date of Assignment - if it isn't on the claim form just change to something like '' 6. The sparse particulars of claim state that the account was assigned from ORIGINAL CREDITOR NAME to CLAIMANT NAME ( COMPANY NOT THE SOLS) however no date of assignment has been given and the Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment."

TODAY IS THE DAY.

Please can you tell me what else I send with the defence (one copied from above but edited for me). Proof of postage and copies of letters to bc and l? Is that all? Or should there be something else? Do I inform bc of what I'm doing or just leave it to the courts?
Thanks

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

What ever I do I've point got until tomorrow for them to recieve by Friday

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

Ok great should I print this.. adding to it my details and send with my royal mail proofs etc and the letters I originally sent to bc and l?

[Amethyst]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

4. The Defendant believes this claim may relate to a LOAN / CREDIT CARD / BANK ACCOUNT / MOBILE PHONE etc with but without further details is unable to be certain.

Date of Assignment - if it isn't on the claim form just change to something like '' 6. The sparse particulars of claim state that the account was assigned from ORIGINAL CREDITOR NAME to CLAIMANT NAME ( COMPANY NOT THE SOLS) however no date of assignment has been given and the Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment."

[kelike28]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

You'll need to put a defence in saying that you don't have any documents for the debt - this is a draft from someones elses case just to get you started xx


IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT (CCBC) CASE No: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

BETWEEN:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CLAIMANT
And

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
DEFENDANT


__________________________________________________ _____
Defence
__________________________________________________ _____

Preliminary Matters

1. The Claimants claim form fails to adequately or even accurately set out the nature of the Claim.

2. The Defendant avers that the Claimants pleadings are an abuse of process. The Claimants pleadings are lacking detail, there are no details as to when the alleged default occurred, the degree of default, despite requests for information from the Defendant, the Claimant has not provided any details as to how the sums claimed have accrued. Accordingly the Defendants contend that the pleadings are wholly inadequate for a contested matter and that the Claimant should be required to plead its case coherently and accurately as required by the CPR 16 and PD 16. The Defendants reserve the right to replead their defence should the Claimant replead its claim adequately

3. The Defendant accepts the claim was issued in the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre and that there are restrictions on pleading. However the bulk centre rules clearly state that if you cannot plead in the allowed number of characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre or in the alternative the Claimant was at liberty to issue and set out that particulars were to follow.


The Claim

4. The Defendant believes this claim may relate to a xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ?????with but without further details is unable to be certain.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

6. The sparse particulars of claim state that the account was assigned fromxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx to Lowell Portfolio onxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. ???? (no idea of a date, how would i find this out) The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. Upon the Claimant clarifying matters set out above the Defendant reserves his position to amend this Defence further. The Defendant shall seek the costs of the amendments from the Claimant due to the Claimants failure to plead its case adequately.

8. In respect of matters, which the Defendant is able to plead to, on the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx the Defendant made a request for information to the Claimant. The request was made pursuant to s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ascertain the agreement, which the Claimant was demanding payment under and to obtain further information about the terms of the contract.

9. The Claimant has failed to disclose any documents relating to their claim to the Defendant.

10. Accordingly the Claimant has failed to comply with s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

11. The Defendant has not yet been able to examine the terms and conditions which were in force at the time that the agreement was executed and therefore reserves the right to amend these pleadings to address any breaches that are identified if such terms and conditions are disclosed by the Claimant. The amendment will be due to the lack of disclosure by the Claimant and the failure to respond to the s78 CCA 1974 request correctly and the Defendant therefore also reserves the right to claim the costs of such amendment from the Claimant.

12. The Defendant has also sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in their statement of case as allowed under CPR 31.14. The Claimant has failed to respond.

12. For the avoidance of doubt the Defendant requires the Claimant to plead effectively and disclose the legible documents upon which the Claim is based. In the event the Claimant fails to replead, then the Defendant reserves the right to apply for whatever orders it deems fit including an order striking the Claim out.

Default Notice

17. It is denied that the original creditor, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

18. Due to the Claimants failure to allow the Defendant to inspect the Default notice alluded to within the Claim form the Defendant is prejudiced.

Accordingly the Defendant reserves his position to amend this Defence with the costs of the same paid by the Claimant if the Claimant provides a copy of the Default Notice.

Notice of sums in arrears.

19. It is denied that the Claimant has served notice of sums in arrears pursuant to s86B Consumer Credit Act 1974. A notice of sums in arrears in a condition precedent on enforcement and therefore the Claimant is not entitled to enforce the agreement.

Conclusion
20. Accordingly, the Defendant avers that

20.1. The Claimant has failed to plead properly in this matter and has failed to provide any information relating to this debt.

20.2. The Claimant has not complied with s78 or 86, and 87 Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore cannot enforce the agreement.

20.3. Therefore, the Claimants Claim should be dismissed and the Claimant should pay the Defendants costs.

Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



Signed …………………………………………
Dated

Woudl i send all of my proof of delviery copies and letters to BC and L with this?

Sorry - ive also put in bold italic and underlined against parts im unsure about

[Amethyst]

Re: BC/Lowell V Kelike28

You'll need to put a defence in saying that you don't have any documents for the debt - this is a draft from someones elses case just to get you started xx


IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT (CCBC) CASE No: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

BETWEEN:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CLAIMANT
And

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
DEFENDANT


__________________________________________________ _____
Defence
__________________________________________________ _____

Preliminary Matters

1. The Claimants claim form fails to adequately or even accurately set out the nature of the Claim.

2. The Defendant avers that the Claimants pleadings are an abuse of process. The Claimants pleadings are lacking detail, there are no details as to when the alleged default occurred, the degree of default, despite requests for information from the Defendant, the Claimant has not provided any details as to how the sums claimed have accrued. Accordingly the Defendants contend that the pleadings are wholly inadequate for a contested matter and that the Claimant should be required to plead its case coherently and accurately as required by the CPR 16 and PD 16. The Defendants reserve the right to replead their defence should the Claimant replead its claim adequately

3. The Defendant accepts the claim was issued in the Northampton County Court Bulk Centre and that there are restrictions on pleading. However the bulk centre rules clearly state that if you cannot plead in the allowed number of characters then you should not use the Bulk Centre or in the alternative the Claimant was at liberty to issue and set out that particulars were to follow.


The Claim

4. The Defendant believes this claim may relate to a xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx with but without further details is unable to be certain.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

6. The sparse particulars of claim state that the account was assigned fromxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx to Lowell Portfolio onxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. Upon the Claimant clarifying matters set out above the Defendant reserves his position to amend this Defence further. The Defendant shall seek the costs of the amendments from the Claimant due to the Claimants failure to plead its case adequately.

8. In respect of matters, which the Defendant is able to plead to, on the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx the Defendant made a request for information to the Claimant. The request was made pursuant to s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 to ascertain the agreement, which the Claimant was demanding payment under and to obtain further information about the terms of the contract.

9. The Claimant has failed to disclose any documents relating to their claim to the Defendant.

10. Accordingly the Claimant has failed to comply with s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s78 (4) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

11. The Defendant has not yet been able to examine the terms and conditions which were in force at the time that the agreement was executed and therefore reserves the right to amend these pleadings to address any breaches that are identified if such terms and conditions are disclosed by the Claimant. The amendment will be due to the lack of disclosure by the Claimant and the failure to respond to the s78 CCA 1974 request correctly and the Defendant therefore also reserves the right to claim the costs of such amendment from the Claimant.

12. The Defendant has also sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in their statement of case as allowed under CPR 31.14. The Claimant has failed to respond.

12. For the avoidance of doubt the Defendant requires the Claimant to plead effectively and disclose the legible documents upon which the Claim is based. In the event the Claimant fails to replead, then the Defendant reserves the right to apply for whatever orders it deems fit including an order striking the Claim out.

Default Notice

17. It is denied that the original creditor, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

18. Due to the Claimants failure to allow the Defendant to inspect the Default notice alluded to within the Claim form the Defendant is prejudiced.

Accordingly the Defendant reserves his position to amend this Defence with the costs of the same paid by the Claimant if the Claimant provides a copy of the Default Notice.

Notice of sums in arrears.

19. It is denied that the Claimant has served notice of sums in arrears pursuant to s86B Consumer Credit Act 1974. A notice of sums in arrears in a condition precedent on enforcement and therefore the Claimant is not entitled to enforce the agreement.

Conclusion
20. Accordingly, the Defendant avers that

20.1. The Claimant has failed to plead properly in this matter and has failed to provide any information relating to this debt.

20.2. The Claimant has not complied with s78 or 86, and 87 Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore cannot enforce the agreement.

20.3. Therefore, the Claimants Claim should be dismissed and the Claimant should pay the Defendants costs.

Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.



Signed …………………………………………
Dated