Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

[Fred123]

Hi,

I'm new to this site. Basically some company called lowells wrote to me about a Vodafone debt. I sent a prove letter nothing. Then I got a County Court Summons from Bryan Carter. I sent CPR part 31 and second prove it letter to carters and lowells. I received a letter today telling me to file my defence, seek legal advice.

Any help much appreciated

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

I forgot to say letter states we confirm the claim form was issued by the county court business centre and that the courts protocol was followed when issuing the claimants particulars of claim. Practice direction 7c point 1.4 (3a) eliminates the requirement to attach the documents to the particulars of the claim when they are issued by this court.

I've no idea what to do now. X

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

That's a quite standard response from Bryan Carter. Presumably they won't give you an extension either. Therefore you have a choice, either submit an application to the court to request inspection of the documents (ie following through with the cpr request) or entering a defence along the same lines.

Need to know a bit more about the background of the debt though, the particulars of claim etc and whether there are any other issues you could use in your defence other than not producing the evidence of the debt on request.

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Hi there,

thank you for getting back to me so quickly the debt is for a service agreement with Vodafone for 890 pounds plus Lowells have added interest. I think I would know if I run up such a large debt.

I guess I need to go ahead and file my defence. I did call them to ask for more information. I was told I should have it all and if I defend my claim and lose. The debt will increase.

would anybody be so kind to help me set out my defence - thank you.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

I think you probably would know yes.

So for your defence purposes,

Did you have any contract with Vodaphone?

Are you aware of any outstanding debt on the contract (if there was one)?

Were there any issues on the account (if etc) ?

Had you had any letters about the Vodaphone debt prior to receiving the court claim ?

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Not that I can remember no. I asked them for a statement/number anything but as you can guess the just ignore.

Im im worried as I'm 21 and have just got engaged and saving for a mortgage. A CCj will ruin our chances.

thank you

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Okay, so you really have no idea what the debt is. I'll give you a hand with the defence tmw (sorry am flagging a bit tonight). Anything you remember just pop it up on the thread. Also if you can check your credit file - use Noddle or another free service - see if it appears on there. Also can you type out the particulars of claim from the original claim pls. xx Try not to worry and congrats on the engagement xxx

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Thank you. Yes I'll post it all up tomorrow. Your help will really be appreciated x

[bigbigproblems]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

If you genuinely don't know what the debt is about call up Lowells and ask to make an official complaint (sod it if you do know about it, do it anyway - they play dirty so play their game). You have the legal right to do this, and if they can't sort it in 8 weeks you can go to the ombudsman. Guess what... that costs them £550 even if they win. So they hate it. I hate these companies, they have nearly ruined my relationship and contributed to breaking me as a man. The advantage with the DCA's is that you can go to the financial ombudsman That's a great thing - cos it costs loads more than the communications ombudsman. But doesn't cost you a penny, just them.

From my experience (in working in a mobile shop for a short time) is that it is nearly impossible to "prove" a phone debt. My case is different to most as I genuinely didn't open the accounts. However it still runs true - phone companies and the associated debt collection agencies pick on the weak and the vulnerable. When I stood up to Lowells they withdrew court action, and eventually they removed all the defaults. I never "proved" I didn't open the accounts, as I was saving that for court. Another well know DCA also ran away and removed the defaults when I stoop up to them.

If you want some advice PM me and I'm happy to have a phone chat or a skype convo giving you the full low down on how this whole game/system works. However there are people on here who are more legally qualified/experienced. I'm just a guy who was nearly destroyed by these organisations. Stand up to them, learn your rights and just see how quickly they back down to the fight!!!

P.S. I only say skype or call as their are some tactics to use which I don't want to say on here. It's not because they are illegal, however I don't believe in informing the enemy. If you ever speak to their "fraud" departments they will refuse at point blank range to admit how they work or how they operate, so as a consumer you must do the same! Remember THEY ARE SCUM!

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Unfortnately bigbigproblems we're already in court with this so will be defending on the basis of not ever having held an account with Vodaphone. We're just waiting checking on the credit file.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Just a start - need the other info asked for y'day before completing it tho.


1. The Defendant denies any debt owing to the Claimant.
2. The Claimants claim is for a debt is alleged to be owed to Vodaphone on A/C No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
3. The Defendant has never to his knowledge held any account or agreed any contract with Vodaphone.
4. Despite requests for information from the Defendant, the Claimant has not provided any further details as to how the sums claimed have accrued or copies of any agreement/contract between Vodaphone and the Defendant.
5. The Defendant is unaware of having purchased any goods or services from Vodephone at any time.
6. No date of inception of the account has been given.
7. The claimants states that the account was assigned from Lloyds to Lowell Portfolio I on xxxxxxxxxxx. The Defendant has not received any notification of this assignment.
8. The receipt of the court claim is the first and only communication received from the Claimants.
8. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Good morning Amethyst,

Ok where do I start, well the court summons was received on the 6th June from Bryan Carter Solicitors. I file the acknowledgement on the 10th June, recevied the letter from Bryan Carter yesterday, telling me basically no to the CPR Part 31 and no extension. I can't find the oringial court summons, I replied with everything online (nightmare I know), now on top of everything else my sister is saying she took out a phone contract about 3/4 years ago with Vodafone in my name was too scared to tell me when she couldn't pay the bill - and it was for two phones, one for her and her boyfriend, she has no paperwork, never received statments and can't remember even receiving any default letters. I wasn't living at home them as I studying at college and living in rented accommodation.

Mr Carter and Lowells are not provding any info. I could murder my sister but at least she's had the balls to admit it now!!

The court summons was received from Northampton County Court Business Centre. I can't search my credit file as I don't have a bank card, I've lost mine and going on holiday tomorrow. Mu mum is going to carry this on for me. It all such bad timing. I had to tell her, thats when my sister admitted. If she had the money she would pay it but she doesn't.

Please what do I do now, Bryan Carter summons was services/good received/agreement with vodaphone £11075 with interest. Something do with under the property act. sorry just getting into a state now - what a mess.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Ouchy. Its okay we see a fair bit where relatives/friends have taken out contracts in other people names. I'm assuming you don't want to report your sister for fraud - the bugger is you will end up with a CCJ on your credit file unless its paid within 28 days, and if you came to an arrangement outside of court on instalments avoiding the CCJ, then if your sister defaulted on those payments it would come back on you and you'd get the CCJ anyway.

You didn't open the account so could continue to deny the claim, has your sister said how she opened the account? Presumably online to get around any basic fraud checks. It could end up with an investigation.

Okay the claim is £1075 not £11075 (I hope else that's one humongous phone bill ) Do you know if this is just for the one account or the boyfriends one as well? if its just one then it may be the other one will show up in coming months.

I'll amend the defence a bit later (have to take daughter to dentist shortly) we can still argue they haven't evidenced the claim at all and go down the technical route, but they may be able to produce account statements etc in your name which would mean having to amend your defence later (which attracts a cost).

Will have a think while am out, see if anyone else has any input too. Hopefully we'll get sussed and get a defence in today so you can get on with your holiday and not have to deal with this further till you get back (usually have over a month after submitting defence till you need to do anything else).

Basically options are wing it and keep denying it (might come back to slap you in the face tho) , admit the debt and make a formal offer to pay through the court, defend on the basis lowell havent evidenced you owe the debt (which might just be delaying things but will give some breathing space), or get in touch with Lowell and try come to an informal arrangement under a tomlin/consent order.

Sorry I have to go now but be back later xx

[Fred123]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Hi there,

Yes the it's for both accounts, she opened one account and then another phone was added to the account for her boyfriend. I'm guessing it was just over two years ago as I only turned 21 this May.

No I don't want to report my sister (would like to kill her - not really).

Yes it was all done on-line.

What I can't understand is why Mr Carter is not providing any evidence, surely he must if this is going to court. I am just going to try and fight it. If it ends up in court then that's a chance I am going to have to take, I dont have that sort of my money and my sister only works part-time, no joy there.

Thank you.

PS: if my court summon was issued on the 6th. Am i right in thining Defence has to be in by the 25th June. It does sound like Mr Carter and Lowells are making a lot of people's lives a misery.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter & VOdafone debt

Back Okay we'll go with the claim as we were doing yesterday just amending to take the absolute denial out.



1. The Claimants claim is for a debt is alleged to be owed to Vodaphone on A/C No. xxxxxxxxxxxxx.
2. The Defendant does not recognise the debt from the details given and is unable to ascertain whether there is any amount owing to the original creditor or the claimant.
3. Despite requests for information from the Defendant (made under CPR 31.14), the Claimant has not provided any further details as to how the sums claimed have accrued or copies of any agreement/contract between Vodaphone and the Defendant.
4. No date of inception of the account has been given.
5. No default notice has been received by the Defendant.
5. The claimant states that the account was assigned from Lloyds to Lowell Portfolio I on xxxxxxxxxxx. The Defendant has not received any notification of this assignment.
6. The receipt of the court claim is the first and only communication from the Claimants received by the Defendant regarding this alleged debt.
7. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
8. Should the Claimants adequately evidence the debt the Defendant reserves the right to amend his defence.

Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.