Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

IMO
Unless you have absolute proof with evidence then stating 'forged document' might perhaps be better stated as 'a possibly forged document'

Thanks. will update the wordings

Have you accepted their unlawful repudiation of the contract?
If not the Judge might want to know why.

MM, can you explain a bit more on this coz I don't quite understand what you mean?

Is there a date associated with the termination in the w/s?

No.. Just a statement in para5 of their WS
"..... Default Notice was served upon the Defendant pursuant Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requiring the payment of arrears to be made. The Defendant failed to comply with the same and the Agreement terminated.... There is now exhibited JPM4 copy of the said Default Notice."

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

I thought I posted the 1st page ofthe order from the court




So what does it mean if they didn't comply in disclosing any one ofthose docs above e.g like the agreement stated within the deed?

I am about to put in my amended defense

"Furthermore, it is brought to Court attention the Claimant’s disregard of the Court order dated 28th June 2010 to file at Court and disclosed to Defendant all copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with Consumer Credit Act and has led to unnecessary costs."

Is this Ok or not? I am writing this in regards to the "upgrade" T&Cs that CL Finance said that's what happened to my account but didn't provide any evidence.

[Amethyst]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

I am about to put in my amended defense

"Furthermore, it is brought to Court attention the Claimant’s disregard of the Court order dated 28th June 2010 to file at Court and disclosed to Defendant all copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with Consumer Credit Act and has led to unnecessary costs."

Is this Ok or not? I am writing this in regards to the "upgrade" T&Cs that CL Finance said that's what happened to my account but didn't provide any evidence.

Are you saying they havent supplied those specific items, or just they havent supplied the variation agreement (ie from when it changed to a c/card) ?

That issue was dealt with at the last hearing and they were ordered then to do so, were they not?

I also think you should bring up the GE Money undertaking regarding upgrade of these accounts in the defence too as it shows it was their standard procedure then not to send further agreements and the OFT bollocked them for it. Basically get the OFT undertaking and assessment of unfairness from 2004 judged in court.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

As of today 23 september 2010, neither I or the court has received anything from CL Finance, what actually should happen when claimant don't comply with court order? My case will be heard again on the 8th. Would they be allowed to spring sthg up on the day of hearing or nearer to that date & hence didn't give me much time to preparae? I have read in a few cases, evidence brought in on the day of hearing, the DDJ let it to be submitted....now where the justice in that?

Rang the court, the staff told me he can't see it in the comp but there's backlog... he advised me to write to court informing the court that I haven't received anything as of today...

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

Hi all

After 10 days waiting (as per court order), today I received CL finance WS. As you can see they cleverly put 21st September 2010 on their WS;






They don't even try to defend all the points I raised about the validity of the assignment of debt! What do you all think? Am I going to be ambush with the assignment agreement come the 8th? Will they be allowed to do that?

[Zazen.Warrior]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

Howard Cohens always comply at the very last moment - when they comply at all, I've never been able to decide whether it's just sloppy or psychological.

Anyway I've been to court with them twice, I won one and I lost one, superficially both cases were the same the only difference being the judge.

Even with the one I lost the judge refused to grant them their costs. In fact he gave their representative a very long lecture on their shortcomings, starting with the letter I got back in response to my disclosure request which basically states they do not need to supply any evidence of liability, he was particularly rankled by that :tinysmile_grin_t:

Anyway I will leave the advice to the experts, I don't consider myself to be one at this stage.

Good luck with this!

[middenmess]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

What a load of tosh!!!!

The fact that the ''document'' is headed as '21st September' but is signed at the bottom as '1st October' is an excellant indicator of what the inbetween paragraphs contain!

[middenmess]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

and what 'recent legislation' was that then?

[middenmess]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

Can you post up the D/N--or point me to it--that you supplied them with which they say is fully compliant?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

Can you post up the D/N--or point me to it--that you supplied them with which they say is fully compliant?

hiya, the DN that they gave me is on post 4 on this thread the 3rd doc after copy of the agreement.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

hi all,

Round 2 of my meeting with the judge & CL Finance is tomorrow. On the 24th August case was adjourned because the judge didn't want to dismiss it and asked me to amend my defense & for CL to reply by 21st by giving me the variation of the agreement that change the card from store card to credit card. I did my bit but unless I am wrong they didn't actually reply to a lot of my points which are:

1) The agreement is not an agreement for credit card as it state specifically that it was a store card.
2)The assignment itself

The one point they did reply is the 3rd point about the default notice. Why do I feel that I am going to get ambush tomorrow re point 1 & 2 above?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

and what 'recent legislation' was that then?

U r quite right there MM but just in case are there any recent legislation that I should be aware of for tomorrow?

Plus if I am not mistaken, PT once mentioned to me rthat Carey v HSBC only allowed the agreement to be recon & nothing else... Is this correct?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

well
lets be clear

the law of evidence hasnt been altered by carey

they cannot reconstitute documents other than credit agreements.

The date for starters is wrong, its a day out, so , thats a problem for them

the 14 days issue i think may struggle due to the Brandon case.

This is the post I was looking for, so is there a specific para in Carey v HSBC that state this? So point 5 of their Witness statement is a lot of rubbish then as they can't recon default notice.

[middenmess]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

hiya, the DN that they gave me is on post 4 on this thread the 3rd doc after copy of the agreement.

That D/N does not fully comply with the legislation in the CCA 1974.

In particular it has to specify a date and not say 14 days.

See ........
http://www.johnpughschambers.co. uk/C...ons%201983.pdf


Combined with the other 'copy' D/N that they later supplied you with that is different in several respects--definitely an iffy document as there is no legislation AFAIK that allows a reconstitution--a Judge would have no truck with their shenanigans but as it's down to the 'Judge lottery' he might well come up with their favourite argument of it being a 'De Minimus' issue.

Although such a decision if made should be overturned on appeal this is just more grief to go through.

If you had a competent legal advocate then I doubt if the Judge would arrive at anything but the correct decision,IMO.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Another court case - hearing on the 24th August..HELP!

The whole idea of this adjournment was for the Claimant to bring in the variation to the agreement that change the status from store card to credit card. I am sooo annoyed with that judge, he should have dismissed the case there & then. I know they didn't have it o/wise they would have produced this. Such that they didn't supply it , tomorrow my strategy is:

a) Section 51 - prohibition of unsolicited credit tokens ... anybody got any case law for this?

b) wasting of court times.... is there a CPR somewhere for this or case law?


Anybody know?

c) the agreement being a storee card agreement
d) the assignment validity
e) the default notice... Carey v HSBC do not allowed any other doc other than the agreemenmt to be recon.