BW Legal / PRAC Financial Limited (Payday Express)

[sj1988]

Hi All,

Would appreciate some feedback on the following situation, I'll keep it to high level points:

1. 08.03.2019 - Received a CCBC Claim Form (particulars of claim attached)

2. 11.03.2019 - I sent a CPR 31.14 request (recorded delivery, signed and received 13.03.2019

3. 22.03.2019 I I received a response to my CPR 31.14 request that states "they acknowledge receipt of request and have requested documents from their client" advising me that as court proceedings have started that I formally respond via the courts.

4. 25.03.2019 - I called BW Legal to ask why has my request not been fulfilled as per my CPR 31.14 request (7 days to provide or an extension requested). I essentially got a lot of waffle however, the debt is apparently from Feb 2013 - and I apparently made a payment March 2013 for £0 (how convenient as this falls within the 6 year period), and I have agreed to the terms via email.

I genuinely have no idea what this debt is and do not remember being provided with a credit facility from Payday Express.

My thoughts after my investigation is that;

A. They have no documentation and will be unable to fulfil my CPR request.
B. If this debt is true, it would be statute barred and they're claiming a payment of £0 in March was made to keep it within the 6 year period.

Please let me know your thoughts for a defence?

Much appreciated as always,

SJ

[GBExile]

Well as payday express no longer exist I would suggest that any document they claim to come up in the future that they cannot prove they had before should be regarded as dubious to say the least.

Payday UK & Payday Express no longer communicate with the Financial Ombudsman Service because they have stopped trading fully, so it basically stops you getting financial recourse via the FOS.

So if Prac haven't got their papers in order then they could be in a whole world of trouble.

[Amethyst]

Did you also send a CCA request ?

[sj1988]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for response.

Amethyst - No I have not sent a CCA request.

Just a quick update. I have found an agreement for a £150 loan which was dated 21.02.2013.

No payment was ever made to that account. Should I go on the basis the debit is statute barred or proceed with forcing them to obtain documentation (which presumably they do not have).

[Amethyst]

Both please do send a CCA request to PRA - it doesn't matter you have your copy - they need to comply with a formal cca request in order to enforce.

also

"they're claiming a payment of £0 in March was made to keep it within the 6 year period."

was that meant to say £10 or something ? If £0 then obvs it counts not.

Can you do a pic of the agreement you do have pls. Redact before posting. Is it with instant cash loans t/as payday express or something else ( eg MEM ) ?

[sj1988]

Thanks Amethyst - I will get a CCA request sent - I'll dig out a template

Just to confirm, they stated a payment of zero has been made / and there was activity on the account in March 2013)

I need to file a defence by 04.04, are there any templated ones of the basis of the debt being statute barred?

I have attached screenshots of first page and signature page of agreement (it's a password protected document which I can't "unlock" as they've set a master password.

[Amethyst]

CCA Request


That agreement is for Express Finance ( Bromley ) Ltd - not Instant Cash Loans - so they will need the assignment chain there.

The agreement was entered into 21 Feb and the term was 6 days.

Thus it's statute barred IMO.

Any idea what actually happened in March 2013 ? did they extend for 45 days maybe ?( though that'd be April wouldn't it ) So no they're making crap up - did you contact them at all about the debt in March as far as you recall ?

Did you borrow the full £250 do you know? Apart from that borrowing £250 for 6 days costing £322 being insane, they are now claiming £428 ... so a full breakdown of that is needed.

I'll grab a defence for you... you haven't had an agreement from the claimant at all under the cca - so non compliance ( once you've sent the letter) , plus denial of ever having had any agreement with ICL, AND statute barred ..... assignment req'd, termination and default notices....

[Amethyst]

AN IDEA of a start point....



DEFENCE



1. I received the claim ……from the Northampton County Court on……

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. This claim is for an alleged Loan agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 between Instant Cash Loans Ltd and the Defendant.

4.It is denied that the Defendant entered into any agreement with Instant Cash Loans Ltd. The Defendant is not aware of any amount owed to Instant Cash Loans Ltd or the Claimant.

5. The Defendant does not recognise the debt as the Claimants statement of case is vague and fails to give adequate information to enable the Defendant to properly assess their position.

6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Instant Cash Loans Ltd t/a Payday UK to Prac Financial on 9/12/2016. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment. The Claimant is put to strict proof.

7. It is denied that Instant Cash Loans Ltd served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.

8. It is contended by the Defendant that any debt alleged would be Statute Barred pursuant to s.5 Limitation Act 1980 as any agreement, termination or default, acknowledgement or payment would have been over 6 years before the issuance of this claim.

8. In order to find out more information, on the ………I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to BW Legal. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

9. In addition, on the ............. I sent a formal request for a true copy of the original agreement to PRAC Financial Limited pursuant to section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

10: The Claimant has not provided copies of the Default Notice or Notice Of Assignment as requested.

11: The Claimant has failed to comply with s77 (1)/s78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s77 (4)/s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. The agreement, evidence of assignment of any agreement, evidence of any default or termination and a full breakdown of any debt and how it has been calculated is required as a minimum.

13. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out. The documents required are the original Agreement and terms or documents mentioned in that Agreement, a full statement of the account from inception, showing how the amount being claimed in this case has been calculated, a copy of any and all deeds and notices of assignment, and copies of any default and/or termination notices.

16. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

17. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed ________________________________

Dated ________________________________




Hold on to this bit for now.... as no agreement has been provided you can't plead that it's incorrect as yet so just putting it here for an idea what to please later on if necessary. ( This is from a similar type of claim )

11. On investigation it appears that MEM Consumer Finance traded as Paydayuk in the past. Therefore, if the alleged agreement has been assigned by MEM Consumer FInance to Instant Cash Loans Ltd I have received no notice of such assignment and the Claimant should evidence that the agreement was legally assigned firstly to Instant Cash Loans Ltd, and subsquently to themselves. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[sj1988]

Amethyst - thanks for this, defence has been submitted.

With regards to the statutory £1 fee, what is the best way to present this; a postal order with a written note on back to say it only relates to the CCA request.

I only ask as I could of sworn I read somewhere that sometimes these companies mark this as a payment towards a disputed amount?


P.S as a small token of appreciatation I've just paid for a memebership, very grateful for the help you provide.

Thanks,
SJ.

[GBExile]

Amethyst - thanks for this, defence has been submitted.

With regards to the statutory £1 fee, what is the best way to present this; a postal order with a written note on back to say it only relates to the CCA request.

I only ask as I could of sworn I read somewhere that sometimes these companies mark this as a payment towards a disputed amount?


P.S as a small token of appreciatation I've just paid for a memebership, very grateful for the help you provide.

Thanks,
SJ.

Just write a cheque & write the cheque number in your letter for its purpose & write on the back of the cheque too.

If they then mark it as a payment on the account then they are in trouble with the court & any claim maybe struck out for dishonesty.

[Amethyst]

Postal order is entirely fine..... keep a copy of the letter and Postal Order before posting it off. Quite often they are returning the postal order to you but it's affect is still valid. If they then, as GBExile details, pay it to the account as a payment, then of course you can show the court your copies to show the £1 was not a payment to the account but a statutory fee.

And thank you for your support of the forum , it is very much appreciated xxx

[sj1988]

Hello all,

Finally have an update on this case. I submitted my defence on 31.03.2019 and got a letter from BW Legal on 30th April enclosing:

1. A reconstituted copy of the Agreement;
2. Statement of account (have put attachment up)

I genuinely did not remember but this loan but maybe I was young and took it out in stupidity. The original payday loan was for £250.00 which was electronically signed for me on 21/02/2019. No payments were every made, this is backed up by a £15 "charge" on 08/03/2013 (conveniently 1 day after the 6 year expiry that the court papers were original sent - 07/03/2019).

I have no received a "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track" from the courts stating I need to complete Small Claims Questionnaire. Is this worth carrying on defending as if I'm honest I'd rather not risk losing and ending up with a CCJ (appreciate I'd just pay if I lost within 30 days to avoid a CCJ but BW Legal presumably could claim costs on top?

Another option being attempting to settle with BW Legal and getting this thrown out?

20190519_090152_LI.jpg

[sj1988]

**Update

I've now received the notice of assignment letter from original creditor, I can't see any other way of defence in my eyes so looks like I'm going to have to accept and pay to avoid any CCJ.

[MIKE770]

not a good idea await responses nothing is 100% accurate with pay day crooks loans Amethyst

[Amethyst]

You need to get a SAR off to Payday Express - Subject Access Request Letter

This should tell you where the money was paid into when the loan was taken out ( presumably if they have only sent a recon agreement the details are not on there ?)

You can send by Email: customersupport@paydayexpress.co.uk

You can also check your own bank account history if you have access to it to see if you did have a £250 payment in.

I would at least ensure it was your debt before paying anything.

Have you returned your directions questionnaire? Have you received a default / termination notice ?