Setmefree ( for merging )

[Setmefree3]

Thank you both. My partner had to come out of work to become my carer due to my illness and we couldn’t afford to make full payments on different debts. Originally Argos accepted a payment of £14.50 a month but then assigned it to a debt collection agency. Bryan Carter sent a letter in 2014 asking for payment, I asked for a copy of the agreement and was sent an application.

three years later Cohen Cramer sent the same sort of letter. A subject Acess Request was made and we were sent an application and credit agreement. The application which was filled out to apply for a card was dated and signed and then posted back. Cohen Cramer says an agreement was entered even before an application was made. I emailed Lucas Credit services asking for the agreement as the dates have become confusing, to date no reply from them.

on the 5th of June Cohen Cramer have said there client is now legally entitled to take court action.

[Setmefree3]

[Setmefree3]

[Setmefree3]

[Amethyst]

Okay. So the actual credit agreement isn't signed, only the application. And this has come back in response to a Subject Access Request as opposed to a CCA request with a £1 ?

On that credit agreement ( the second document) is their a date in the executed by box ( for and on behalf of Argos Card Services ). There should also be a document entitled 'Further Conditions' with that document.

You made the written application on the 6th October 2006 - therefore could not have entered into the agreement on 28th Sept 2006, I entirely agree with you. The application should have been first, then they accepted you and sent the credit agreement, which you'd sign and return, THEN send the card. So something is wrong somewhere along the line.

Did you send a SAR to Argos directly ?

If you haven't ( and I'm not sure if you have ) I would send a formal CCA request under section 78 of the CCA 1974 to Lowell Portfolio ( they are the creditor now by assignment - Lucas are simply debt collectors on Lowell's behalf, and Crohen Cramer are solicitors acting on behalf of Lowell - so the CCA request needs to go to Lowell. Then you can challenge the documents from that point )

So SAR to Argos, and CCA to Lowell .... that's the next step.

Now the letter from Cohen Cramer probably wants a response - they have said it is a Notice of Pending Legal Action - did they previous send a letter of claim including a reply form to complete and return ( was that where you asked them for the documents initially ? )

Also, beyond the documentation side of things, do you recognise the debt and were there any disputes over it ?

[jaguarsuk]

Okay, so 2 things strike me here.

1. The credit agreement isn't signed by your partner, however the top boxes appear to be completed by hand and the box on behalf of argos (although I cant see it in this pic) the same.

If your partner entered into the agreement for the provision of credit then why isn't it signed?

2. I used to work for a bank between 2000 and 2003, the culture was to dish out credit and if you happened to make mistake on paperwork then you just mock up what you need and file it to the depths of eternity. It seems to me that this is an Argos employee having got their processes wrong when sending out the card and that someone there filled the agreement in rather callously after the event to satisfy the need for paperwork and filed it.

The fact the credit agreement pre-dates the agreement is fatal. It can't be claimed by the claimant that your partner entered into a credit agreement electronically when an unsigned by your partner, but signed by the original creditor hard copy exists.

Now, dealing with the Solicitors... don't send them copies of this and don't let them know you have it either.

Send a CCA Request to the Claimant services and write back to Cohen Cramer thanking them for the copy of the application form from the alleged debt. Inform them you'd like to take up their kind offer of a copy of the agreement in their letter and enclose a copy of the CCA Letter for their reference.

Without a credit agreement regardless of the bluster of Cohen Cramer this debt is unenforceable, we know they can get a copy because you have and then we'll see what the response is.

[Setmefree3]

Thank you both. Lowell were asked for all documents under a SAR because they said any further dealings had to be done through them. Cohen Cramer responded that it can take 45 days. They came back with statements, assignment etc obtained from Argos. there is only a squiggle in the agreement box(no date) Lucas credit services were sent an email asking for a true copy of the agreement to include all terms and conditions as the documents sent did not cover this over 6 weeks ago via email, to date no response. Originally Cohen Cramer said that its client wanted to come to a payment agreement without taking court action. The letter shown to yourselves is the third same letter from Cohen Cramer giving us 30 days.

[jaguarsuk]

Thank you both. Lowell were asked for all documents under a SAR because they said any further dealings had to be done through them. Cohen Cramer responded that it can take 45 days. They came back with statements, assignment etc obtained from Argos. there is only a squiggle in the agreement box(no date) Lucas credit services were sent an email asking for a true copy of the agreement to include all terms and conditions as the documents sent did not cover this over 6 weeks ago via email, to date no response. Originally Cohen Cramer said that its client wanted to come to a payment agreement without taking court action. The letter shown to yourselves is the third same letter from Cohen Cramer giving us 30 days.

Where is the credit agreement dated then?

[Setmefree3]

[jaguarsuk]

But where is the date to show that it pre dates the application form?

[Setmefree3]

The only date I have is what Cohen Cramer have stated on their letter. It was Cohen Cramer who sent me all the documents, which is why we are confused as to why they are offering to send the agreement again.

[Setmefree3]

But where is the date to show that it pre dates the application form?

there isn’t one.

[Setmefree3]

[Amethyst]

You need to send a SAR to Argos and a formal CCA to LOWELL.

Did you receive a letter of claim with a reply form prior to any of this?

CCA Request

CCA request to Lowell Portfolio Ltd, : Ellington House, 9 Savannah Way, Leeds, LS10 1AB.


Subject Access Request Letter

SAR to :- Home Retail Group Card Services Ltd, 489-499 Avebury Boulevard, Milton Keynes, United Kingdom, MK9 2NW

Give them current and previous name and address - the one on the application particularly.

[Setmefree3]

Yes we did receive a claim form and contacted Lucas Credit Services asking them to stop any action from Cohen Cramer until they supplied the correct agreement. We will send of request as suggested.