Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

[kellywilko]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Sorry pressed button to post - continued as follows - Therefore, these were not applied as a direct result of the ppi premium and would not be refunded as part of this complaint.

I also note that you are dissatisfied with the amount of associated interest that has been refunded, an amount of £2345.42. Please note that the balance of your account fluctuated over time, and therefore the amount of interest charged varied. To clarify, the associated interest element of the refund is calculated on the interest directly associated with the ppi premiums, and not that charged on the whole balance. As the refund has been calculated in accordance with guidelines set out by the fos, i must inform you that no further refund is due.

If you are dissatisfied with the refund amount, you will need to refer back to the fos.

Bill-K , would really love your comments on this. Are they correct ? or talking a load of BS? The spreadsheet you made for me was from the figs given by MBNA and yet it seems they are trying wiggle out of paying the correct amount. I don't really want to go back to Fos until i get some advise, as not sure how to argue this. As mentioned also rcvd another letter on same day, this one was dated one day later 29/8/2013 and read as follows:-

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. I have assigned your complaint to one of our case managers who will complete a thorough investigation into your concerns. They will provide an update within 28 days. It is our commitment to you as a customer that if you have a complaint , it will be dealt with fairly and promptly. We endeavour to ensure that our complaints are resolved within eight weeks of receipt. We will keep you updated of the progress of your complaint.
I ASSUME, THAT THIS IS RE THE PENALTY CHARGES, BUT IT MENTIONS NOTHING AS TO WHAT I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT, SO UNSURE?

These two letters must have been sent before Fos rcvd my letters which were sent on 28th August recorded . Would really like someone to advise me how to handle this from here. Do i go back to Mbna, take their word its correct or contact Fos to complain again? Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this, but don't want to let Mbna get away with anything they shouldn't.

[Bill-K]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi Kel, and I hope you enjoyed your break, too !!! Well, that is looking like a better result from MBNA., but they are being as slimy as ever. The matter is NOT concluded until BOTH parties agree it is. It looks to me as though the FOS has probably forwarded MBNA your figures without checking these. MBNA have then taken these and decided that the penalty charges are not reclaimable.

Seeing as you have now referred this to the FOS, then I don't think MBNA should be sending you a reduced offer with no proper explanation as to how they have calculated it. You sent the FOS your calculations, and if the FOS or MBNA do not agree with them, then they should explain why, and they should have the basic courtesy to do so in as much detail as you have. My immediate thoughts are to write to the FOS and insist that they ask MBNA for a detailed explanation of the way that they have now calculated their offer, so that they can make an informed decision in the light of the FSA/FCA PPI Redress Rules as to whether it is acceptable. Once the matter has been referred to the FOS, then I don't think MBNA should be contacting you directly, and I think you should mention this to the FOS as well, and that you consider that further compensation should be made for MBNA's unreasonable behaviour.

If MBNA can't match the effort that you have made by sending the FOS your detailed calculations, then they are NOT making an offer that is acceptable under the FSA rules, and the FOS should know this.

[kellywilko]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Many thanks Bill, I will send a letter to Fos today and will keep you updated with response.

[kellywilko]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi Bill-k, sent letter to the Fos on 4th Sept and called today to confirm receipt of this. Confirmed they had letter and then asked to go through this with me. Was told that they would pass to someone else to check the figures supplied by Mbna against the spredsheet you kindly did for me. Was shocked to be told this could take between 12-18 months, does this sound correct at this stage ? I also mentioned that i was holding the cheque for £7600 sent by Mbna on the advice given by Fos at the end August and was now concerned as the cheque would expire before Fos was able to check the figures offered by Mbna. Was told that Fos would contact Mbna to issue a new one if expired. I was really hoping that Fos would have just contacted Mbna and put the onus back on them to supply their workings out, but seems this is not the case. Does all this sound right to you and should i just leave and wait to hear from them or go back and insist they contact Mbna to supply figures required? Thanks once again

[Bill-K]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

As this has already been with the FOS for some time already, then I don't think they should be subjecting you to a FURTHER 12-18 months. It CANNOT take them that long to compare the figures, and I think you need to tell them that. It's about time that the FOS 'grew up' and learned to do some sums - which they hate. Be persistent - but be polite, Kel.

[kellywilko]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi Bill-K, phoned fos again on Friday and the gentleman i spoke to was really helpful. He told me the wrong info had been given and that he was sending a email to Mbna as we spoke to request a breakdown of figures. I will let you know outcome when i get any further info.
Meanwhile i today receieved a reply to the penalty figs and interest on these that we tried to reclaim in the spread sheet. This reads as follows -

Thank you for your recent letter. I am sorry that you feel the default charges applied to your account are unfair. When we set up our consumer credit agreements we feel that it is reasonable for us to include fees to cover our costs if the terms are breached. Our charges to vocer these costs have been set at £12, this has been the case since June 2006 for late and returned payment fees, and July 2006 for overlimit fees andd is in line with the guidance provided by the office of Fair Trading. This was detailed in the terms and conditions, which formed the basis of our agreement to offer a credit facility. It is our view that this level of fee and our approach is fair, legal and transparent.

Please note that all default fee charges are entirely avoidable by staying within the agreed credit limit and making payments on time. We have completed a full rewiew and our records indicate that this account has not been charged any default fees. Therefore this account does not have any charges that are relevant to the complaint received. Our respoinse reflects your account activity six years prior to the date of your complaint was received. In keeping with the limitations act 1980, no fees beyond this timeframe have been considered. This is our final response etc etc etc.
9
Bill, once again they seem to have totally ignored my question about refunding penalty charges that were charged due to ppi, (as per their response to me on my posting 3/sept). Do you think i should go back to them or the Fos ? or are they correct in what they are saying? Also is it correct that they only have to go back six years on reclaiming unfair charges (Think most of mine for around the £25 mark were 2004/2005)? Once again awaiting your fantasic advise on how to handle Mbna.

[Bill-K]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Looks like their typically tried and tested templated tripe tirelessly tripped out by their tiresome twazzocks.

As this is with the FOS, and you seem to be getting somewhere with them, then I think it is best to put this in the hands of FOS as well, now.

I believe that MBNA are PARTIALLY correct, in that they may challenge any reclaiming of penalty charges made over 6 years ago under the Limitation Act (LA), and you would need to pursue such a claim via the courts. The FOS will be little - or no - help in that respect, I fear.

However, the view of the FSA/FCA is - I believe - that mis-sold PPI is NOT covered by the LA, as it is considered to be the result of a deliberate act of deception (not the actual LA wording, which I forget). Also, the LA 'clock' only starts ticking from the time that you discovered the mis-selling - or could reasonably have been expected to know about it.

So - because of this - you can reclaim PPI back to the year dot, as long as you can support your claim with good evidence. You can also reclaim any charges which would not have been made if the PPI had not been sold to you. This would not normally include Late Payment Fees, but may include Overlimit Fees. In the spready I have, there are £193 in Overlimit Fees - so these can be reclaimed (plus account interest on them).

Additionally, since June 2006, you appear to have been charged £50 in Late Payment Fees, when MBNA have already explained that this was considered excessive - so this should be fully refunded - plus interest.

So - at the very least - I think the FOS should support your claim for a refund of these charges (plus interest). As MBNA have told you this is their final response, then they are effectively agreeing to FOS involvement. I would be inclined to send the FOS a copy of the spready, and tell them that you believe that ALL of the penalties listed were either unlawfully made, or were directly attributable to the mis-sold PPI - and should therefore be refunded with interest.

You might like to quote the FSA Handbook on PPI Redress contained within PS 10/12, which states:

DISP APP 3.9.2 In assessing redress, the firm should consider whether there are any other further losses that flow from its breach or failing that were reasonably foreseeable as a consequence of the firm's breach or failing, for example, where the payment protection contract's cost or rejected claims contributed to affordability issues for the associated loan or credit which led to arrears charges, default interest, penal interest rates or other penalties levied by the lender.


DISP APP 3.9.4 The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress.

The FOS sometimes need reminding of the FSA/FCA rules.

[kellywilko]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi all, wondered if Bill-K could help me yet again. Finally today i have been sent by Fos the breakdown of how Mbna came to their figs. These appear different to the figs worked out by Bill. I wonder if i could send this to Bill, as frankly i can't understand it. It has come via email from Fos, so not sure how to get this through to you? I am totally useless with computers and if you could tell me how to send to you, I will do so. Looking at it the main difference seems to be on the associated interest, their figs are much lower . I'm sure if Bill looks at it , he'll know straight away if its correct. The Fos have given me until the 1st Nov to go back to them. They say these figs will then be given over to someone to check and this could take 12/18 months. As already informed, i am holding a cheque issued in August for £7633.92, but Bill seems to think the amount should be nearer to £11,000. Don,t want to let Mbna get away with the difference if their figs are incorrect and would rather wait the 12/18 months to get what is rightfully mine. However if the figs they have sent are correct i need to inform by 1st Nov that i accept them. Many thanks
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[Bill-K]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi Kelly.

This has now become a more complex PPI claim than is the norm. Legal Beagles admin has agreed that such claims may be transferred to

http://www.penaltyactiongroup.co.uk/forum

- which is a companion forum which specialises in 'non-standard' claims.

You may of course continue to discuss you claim here, and I will do my best to advise - but if you would care to continue the claim in PAG, then we can do so with some focussed attention and some further privacy.

For now, I would suggest that you let the FOS know that you are taking advice from a third party, and you will need more time than they have given you in which to respond. Considering the timescales they have allocated themselves, I don't think this is unreasonable !!!

[enaid]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Hi Kelly.

This has now become a more complex PPI claim than is the norm. Legal Beagles admin has agreed that such claims may be transferred to

http://www.penaltyactiongroup.co.uk/forum

- which is a companion forum which specialises in 'non-standard' claims.

You may of course continue to discuss you claim here, and I will do my best to advise - but if you would care to continue the claim in PAG, then we can do so with some focussed attention and some further privacy.

For now, I would suggest that you let the FOS know that you are taking advice from a third party, and you will need more time than they have given you in which to respond. Considering the timescales they have allocated themselves, I don't think this is unreasonable !!!

Have I read this right?
Any claims that are more complex than usual are going to another site to be helped on ?
What use is that if anyone comes on here and has the same issues, yet all the help and info is on another forum.
If I have this wrong then please explain just what it is about.
Sorry to the OP for this post but just need it clearing up for my own sake .
Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Personally I would cash the cheque and write to them informing them you are accepting it in part settlement of your claim (by 1st November) whilst they check the figures. (cheques usually last for 6 months unless the issuer cancels it)

[Angry Cat]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Have I read this right?
Any claims that are more complex than usual are going to another site to be helped on ?
What use is that if anyone comes on here and has the same issues, yet all the help and info is on another forum.
If I have this wrong then please explain just what it is about.
Sorry to the OP for this post but just need it clearing up for my own sake .
Thanks

ERR?
Bill-K, helps a lot of people, Turboman also, with their complicated calculations...

Nothing wrong with that, is there?

And, if we cannot assist further on here, whats is wrong with getting help elsewhere?

[Amethyst]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Why can't we assist further on here?

[enaid]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

ERR?
Bill-K, helps a lot of people, Turboman also, with their complicated calculations...

Nothing wrong with that, is there?

And, if we cannot assist further on here, whats is wrong with getting help elsewhere?

I was asking why the same poeple would be helping on another site and not on here as that is how I read it.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Need help with FOS letter after 2nd rejection letter from MBNA

Many of us started with PAG before moving onto CAG...
But, agree, we should be able to assist further on here. However, it would appear that this case is quite complex and if, Bill-K has concluded same, who will help further?