Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

ENDEAVOUR PERSONAL FINANCE LIMITED
CAMDEN HOUSE WEST
THE PARADE
BIRMINGHAM
B1 3PY
Company No. 02412558


Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 10/08/1989

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
6522 - Other credit granting
6523 - Other financial intermediation
Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2009 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2011
Last Return Made Up To: 31/12/2009
Next Return Due: 28/01/2011 OVERDUE
Last Members List: 31/12/2010
Previous Names: Date of change Previous Name 16/08/1993 GUNNTON LIMITED

Just for referance

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Email from Adudicator 2 Feb 2011

Dear Mr & Mrs

Thank you for your email.

As you are aware we are unable to set up your complaint against Click Finance as at the time your payment protection insurance policy was sold, they were not regulated by our service. Therefore your case is part of a number of cases where we are looking at if it is fair and reasonable for the compliant to be set up against the underwriter of the policy, which in you case is Hamilton Insurance Company Limited.

Your claim is similar in circumstance to lots of files where the policy is underwritten by Hamilton Insurance Company Limited. We are reviewing all the paperwork we have on these files to ascertain if there is an agency relationship that exists between Click Finance and Hamilton Insurance Company Limited. As yet we have been unable to establish this relationship, but our investigations are ongoing

However if this situation changes you will be notified.

Yours sincerely

M
Adjudicator | Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza | ......


.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........

Email we sent to the Adjudicator 14 Feb 2011


Good afternoon Mr

Hamilton REF


I have e-mailed Hamilton who are also with Aviva in regards of Click Company just to see if they have any details via Click Finance.

They confirm they made contact with the HFC the Administration team in regards of our query.

However, I am sorry I have not sent you any further documentation yet, I was hoping to receive more details from the insurer/underwriter company.

But as started I do have brokers paperwork via Click Finance, the lenders and via HFC within our documentation and will only send them if they are of any use.
The lender as you are aware was Endeavour Personal Finance, they have left contact details below of Endeavour who said they may be able to help.

I enclose copies of the e-mails below for your reference if this is of any help too.

Many thanks, I look forward to hearing from you.


Kindest Regards



.................................................. .................................................. ......................

After so many emails sent to him of HFC, here is one we received from the adjudicator 01 March 2011

Thank you for your emails today and yesterday.

I have noted the attachment you have sent and have been able to access it. Although I do not believe it is useful in terms of your claim thank you for sending it to me.

With regards to your previous two emails, as stated before if you wish to contact companies regarding your case then please feel free to do so. Although HFC has already stated to FOS that they are not responsible as the product was not sold by them, it was sold by Click Finance. Direct Group clearly state they do not have any record of you on their system so I do not believe it is appropriate to continue your claim against them. Hamilton Insurance were the company that underwrote your PPI policy.

I have not as yet received the paperwork you have detailed. However today's post has yet to be distributed as I write this email. I will email you once it is received.

Yours sincerely

M
Adjudicator | Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza | 183 Marsh Wall | London |

He did confirm on receiving the paperwork afterwards.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Well that looks like they underwrote the Loan, does the FOS have all that info?

Did you know that Hamilton is of the same address as HFC?

I tried telling the adjudicator on this many times and he would not have it, he said it had to be Hamilton, no wonder he is unable to actually find a direct relationship with them, because its HFC that dealt with it.
Even though i did send the paperwork in relation of HFC he obviously pushed it to the one side and said no not them! Will try to find the email he send on this a few months back.

I think this is something now I will have to point out to the ombudsman.

They are all connected it seems going by the addresses doesn't it?:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Well that looks like they underwrote the Loan, does the FOS have all that info?

Did you know that Hamilton is of the same address as HFC?

Firm name: Hamilton Insurance Company Limited. Address: North Street Winkfield Windsor Berkshire SL4 4TD. Phone: 01344 892666. Fax: 01344 892288 ..

So Hamilton Finance Company (HFC) and Hamilton Insurance Company (HIC) are one and the same.

So they are who you should be chasing as I think you will find that it has HFC
that actually advanced the money via endeavour who btw took a commission.

Is this Endeveavor:

http://www.cf-loans.co.uk/contact-epf.htm

I'm just trying to track back the internet for you with the wayback machine and see what if anything has been archived

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Came across a separate HFC Bank Limited "Customer Service Speaks with Form" logo HFC"

Both me and hubby had a separate on each.

It shows the name on the form who completed it.
The date of loan.
My personal details, name address, date of birth.
Questions of anyone else over the age of 17 in our household.

It asks which broker or sub broker did we apply through (Click Finance).

If we received a FISA Borrower information guide.

Did the broker visit us at home.

Asked about any fees.

If the loan in joint names.

If joint asking if the cheque will be made in joint names.

Asking if we signed a declaration stating a single name.

Who's names specified.

What type of mortgage we have.

Do we have an endowment policy.

Do we pay childminding fees.

The details of the credit.

At the bottom of the speaks form it states.

Do you have a pen? please taken the following telephone number. This is Customer Services. Once your loan is completed, if we can help you in the future in any way or with additional funds please give us a call.

NOTE:
Do not ask the customer direct questions regarding CAIS information returned from the bureau, if not disclosed by the customer.

(all the above was questions they asked us on the phone before the loan was paid out), so to me these are the underwriters do you think?

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I know mine was sold to me before the fine came into action with HFC, but they were regulated in 2001, the FOS can take this on they surely if this is the case with mine in the end?

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/hfc_bank.pdf


The address below is the same as on my paperwork, and letters received from them have HFC logo's as well as Endeavour Personal Finance.

　
HFC Bank Limited

Of:

North Street

Winkfield
Windsor
Berkshire

SL4 4TD

and I also have this address on paperwork from HFC


HFC Bank Limited
120 Edmund Street,
Birmingham
B3 2Q2

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

The above states July 2004 which was just before the period that HFC was fined for.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=HFC...w=1280&bih=622

So I am not sure if that will help at all, although the loan was in force at the time they where fined.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------


Perhaps that is a question you need to ask I would request copies of all the documentation the FOS hold as I think that will contain some answers.
[/color][/left]

It was originally a loan for over 25 years, but with taking it out in July 2004, we settled it November 2005.
I am aware though HFC were regulated by the FSA as from 2001 where the FOS could actually take on the case.

What I may do now is contact the adjudicator anyway, because we are still considering moving it on to the ombudsman, but write to HFC as well for more details.
The only paperwork they held is what we supplied them with, they said because they could not locate the brokers info as they dissolved in 2006.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

The above states July 2004 which was just before the period that HFC was fined for.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=HFC...w=1280&bih=622

So I am not sure if that will help at all, although the loan was in force at the time they where fined.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

But why the adjudicator will not take HFC into consideration beats me.

Perhaps that is a question you need to ask I would request copies of all the documentation the FOS hold as I think that will contain some answers.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Considering that HFC Bank was fined for misselling it is somewhat strange that this was not upheld.

What was the month and year this was taken out again? was it between January 2005 and May 2007?

It was July 2004 PF, but they did not sell the loan, Click Finance the broker did and lender Endeavour, but HFC did speak to us in regards of the insurance, which we did try telling the adjudicator this but with the broker dissolved they suggested the insurer/underwriter direction, and even though the paperwork if we did ever need to make a claim would have been Hamilton (as shown on the loan policy details), HFC was the ones who underwrote this, then once that was done the we received the loan a few days on.

Its a complexed matter isn't it?

But why the adjudicator will not take HFC into consideration beats me.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Considering that HFC Bank was fined for misselling it is somewhat strange that this was not upheld.

What was the month and year this was taken out again? was it between January 2005 and May 2007?

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Having some issues with attaching my docs at present (my end) so here below is the details of that letter (absolutely no mention of HFC).

Dear Mr & Mrs


Your complaint about Click Financial trading as (Click Finance)/Hamilton Insurance.

I refer to previous correspondence regarding the above complaint.

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) is not free to consider every complaint referred to it. I am sorry to tell you that this complaint does not appear to be one that we can consider.

The complaint concerns the sale of Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) Policy which was sold to you by Click Finance Ltd (Click) in July 2004, to run alongside a loan with Endeavour Personal Finance.

We have been unable to investigate your complaint against Click because the sale of the PPI by intermediaries, such as Click have only been regulated since January 2005.

Your complaint against Click is not within jurisdiction of this service.

I advised you that we were investigating the possibility of raising your concerns with the Insurance company who actually provided the cover under this policy (The Underwriter). We have established that the Underwriter of your policy is Hamilton Insurance Company Limited.

In order to conclude that Hamilton is responsible for the sale of your policy, we needed it to be satisfied that Click was acting as an Agent of Endeavour when selling the policy. We would then need to determine that Endeavour was acting as an Agent of Hamilton.

However, having loked at the original sales papers available, we have been unable to conclude that Hamilton can be held responsible for the sale of your policy.

I say this because Click acted as a Credit Broker when arranging the loan and Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) for you. In the terms & conditons of your Endeavour Credit Agreement, a copy of which I enclose, it specifically states that Credit Brokers used during the transaction are acting agents of the borrower and Endeavour does not accept any responsibility for any action or any advice provided by the Credit Broker.

In virew of the above, I have been unable to determine that Click was acting as an Agent of Endeavour selling the policy. As such we have been unable to conclude that there was a relationship between Click/Endeavour and Hamilton.

Because of this, I do not believe we can consider your complaint further.
I appreciate that this is likely to come as a disappointment to you. I know this is not the outcome you were hoping for. But hope my explanation has been helpful in setting out clearly why I have taken this view.

However, if you disagree with how I have reached my conclusions, please write and tell me by the 16 June 2011, setting out your reasons and including any evidence that you have not already provided, and that you think is important in this case.
Could you please let me know now if you plan to reply fully but do not think you will be able to meet that deadline.

As we explain in our leaflet your complaint and the Ombudsman, Consumers have the right to ask an Ombudsman to review the opinion that the complaint cannot be considered further. But if we do not hear from you by 16 June 2011 we will assume that you have decided not to pursue the complaint further.

Yours sincerely

Adjudicator.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

where do endeavour ("EPF") fit into this Di if the broker was Click and the lender was HFC?

EPF are a secured loan lender, cant understand why they would be involved or where they fit in from reading posts so far. Can you clarify as it may have an impact.

I have ppi policy details of the insurer - Hamilton, and it was the FOS who suggested going this avenue, because Click Finance was the broker of the loan who arranged it for Endeavour but Click dissolved, yet we remember having a phone call from HFC that Endeavour arranged before the loan was paid out, its the call where they had to speak to me and hubby separately.
Confusing isn't it?

So basically - broker Click Finance
Lender - Endeavour personal Finance
Insurer (paid within the loan) Hamilton
Customer contact (underwriting) HFC

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

where do endeavour ("EPF") fit into this Di if the broker was Click and the lender was HFC?

EPF are a secured loan lender, cant understand why they would be involved or where they fit in from reading posts so far. Can you clarify as it may have an impact.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

have you considered pursuing HFC via court route, case law suggets lender is vicariously liable for actions of broker due to agency agreement (Wislon v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299. This wasnt a ppi case but the precedent could easily be applied to a broker being induced by way of commision by the lender to breach their fiduciary duty to their client (you) in order to sell insurance.

Its definately something we should take into consideration.

What baffles me is the fact that I do actually have paperwork here with HFC, its a "speaks form" when the loan/ins went through we were then called by telephone by HFC to go through all the details of the loan (As Endeavour arranged this), where payment of the loan was arranged to be released, so I would have assumed HFC were responsible.

I also stated this to the Adjuicator but they kept going back to Hamilton, just stating" they are the insurer/underwriter and its them we're on to".

I have checked someone out as well who's name was left on the speaks form and found this person on FB LOL, she is the underwriter of HFC, but its not something I can disclose to the authorities, they would think I was stalking
I know I should not have done that, its wrong but its so frustrating knowin the fact that I do believe HFC would be the ones responsible.

Cheers for the info as well.

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

have you considered pursuing HFC via court route, case law suggets lender is vicariously liable for actions of broker due to agency agreement (Wislon v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299. This wasnt a ppi case but the precedent could easily be applied to a broker being induced by way of commision by the lender to breach their fiduciary duty to their client (you) in order to sell insurance.