PPI and Court

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

the only proof i have is what is written on the agreement which is a reqirerment to have a co-op bank account with a dd from this account which i had in order for them to take payment whether the funds were cleared or not

Indeed they bowed to this argument when they tried saying no proof of payments on this first loan so no redress on it

So i think i have them by the b*******

I think the FOS murt be tired of me lol but i will not see myself being ripped off no matter how much as they are the bank and it is for them to get it right and furthermore i should not be chasing the banks tail as that is the job of the FOS

Lastly for everyone out there as you would think an offer via the FOS would be right this proves not to be the case so do not take those figures as gospel but indeed have them checked yourself

PF

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

Yeah, I sure can understand your skepticism, PF. This lot have hi-jacked the old 'Caring, Sharing Co-Op' ethos, and completely betrayed the trust we had put in them over the years of the Co-Op's existence. As Enaid also highlights, they appear to have also hi-jacked the 'Ethical Banking' carnival float, as well. If 'Ethical Banking' isn't a contradiction in terms, then I despair for the poor 'Caring, Sharing drug-dealers' who do their best to help our impoverished inner-city inhabitants avoid a meaningful life by relieving them of any conscience.

That 19th payment is interesting, PF. If YOU have any evidence (other than the circumstantial which you have provided) that it was made, we need to find it. If the Co-Op has anything better to prove you wrong, then let's put them to proof. In providing that proof, they may then also provide proof that they with-held data from you - to which you were lawfully entitled. If you're up for the fight, then go for it - BUT - do NOT let that fight become your 'Cause Celébre.' Be prepared to put it aside, as it is just a small part of what is a pretty big picture. Enjoy the skirmish - but do NOT let it stress you, big guy. You are too valuable to let that happen.

...and I haven't even met you.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

After them at first only offering redress on the 8 policies at first and having to fight for 18 mths with them and the fos for redress on this first policy you can understand scepticism off agreeing to this latest offer until I am happy in myself that it is right.

Cannot believe they are still trying the damage limitation exercise.

PF

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Bill,

Right working this out from the spready you did and the actual figures on the offer for the first loan the amount they have of £2393.56 works out as 18 payments as opposed to the 19 we have on the spreadsheet.

This explains the difference between the total on the spreadsheet to the amount on the offer letter

So the question now is did I make 18 or 19 payments.

As all payments went out of my co-op bank account via direct debit i know that i never missed a payment.

Furthermore as the first payment on the next loan did not start until the 23/11/2000 I must of made a payment on the 09/10/2000 to the first loan as it was the 23/10/2000 that we reached agreement on the second.

Sorry typing this to get it clear in my head.

So going on that 19 payments were made and they have got there calculations wrong :tinysmile_aha_t:

I will fire off an email tomorrow morning to the FOS pointing this out and asking them to check the offer themselves.

Regards

PF

P.S Cheeky buggers arnt they.

No doubt they will put it down to a computer glitch lol

[enaid]

Re: PPI and Court

Well done so far PF and I totally agree that you should have some compensation for what they have put you through. Maybe you wouldn't be able to claim for stress and health issues if this had gone the court route, but you would have been awarded some costs over and above the 8% interest I am sure.
Give em a bit of the old 'Ethical banking ' Policy back in their face, see if their morals are indeed as good as they say they are with money.
Here a fifth, no less, review of their so called 'Ethical banking'
http://www.goodwithmoney.co.uk/ethical-banking/

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

I guess if you go for a complete settlement of the current loan, then that will remove any problems with the benefits - although my own experience has shown that the benefits clerks often have less idea of the regulations than we do. I'm inclined to think that the return of your own money cannot be seen as further income - but added interest may be. However, if your benefits are not means-tested, then I don't think it would affect them, anyway. Just guessing and assuming here, though - just like the benefits clerks do !!!

I note that the FOS reckon that, because the bank has offered you the option to continue with the present loan (after re-scheduling and arrears clearance) - OR - to pay it off completely, they should be allowed to avoid paying you compo for distress and inconvenience !!! What a load of cr@p. The FOS guidelines already dictate that you should be put back in the position you would have been if PPI had not been sold. That option was already yours - but you didn't ask for it (did you ?), and you don't want it, either - so IMO they should pay the compo. The 'distress and inconvenience' of a heart attack equates to a helluva lot more than a few hundred quid, so they should pay up and shut up, IMHO.

We need to be consistent with our calculations, PF, so we need to decide which calculation method to use, and then use that method all the way through. The previous method doesn't seem to allow for the 'carry-forward' aspect of the PPI into each successive loan, and I think this needs to be implemented, as it is stipulated by the FOS. But this needs some further data, unfortunately.

The spready I posted needs to be checked for errors, as the dates appear to be approximations, and the total repayment amounts don't seem to agree with the lender's. We also need to know the amount (if any) of any PPI rebate given when each loan was settled, along with the actual settlement figure (which would then have been carried forward to the following loan). If you could post these up here, I should be able to rattle through the whole sequence of loans and come up with a final settlement figure.

Although the original spreadies you have posted use a different method of calculation to that suggested by the FOS, the final result may well be the same. I only suggest we use 'carry forward' method, as that is the method which the FOS appear to suggest. We can then compare all three results, and take it from there.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Bill,

Thanks for that spready, think what ill do is use you spready for the other 8 and send them to the fos and point out as the banks figures are differant to what i have worked out i would be grateful if you could pass both to your calculations team to be checked

What you think?

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

i have no intention of taking the money as i have a current loan which i will honour and pay off and be totally shot of them there is no way they getting anymore business from me

[middenmess]

Re: PPI and Court

Hi Pompey

You should take into consideration that if you accept the money being paid directly to you,it's a possibility that those nice people at benefits might well require you to repay some of said benefits as the near £5k offered equates to £92 pw for the current tax year,so advisable to check that out before making any decision.

I like their logo at the top of their letter..'Good with money'--but not with yours as the offer of 8% interest is very much in their favour as they have had the benefit of your PPI monies for a number of years and have used it as part of their business to gain profit --unjust enrichment springs to mind and should be a strong argument if you decide to carry on your fight with them but I expect you've had a gut full of this by now and it would probably be best just want to put it behind you and get on with your life.

[nelliewops]

Re: PPI and Court

Quite right PF - after the time this has taken you don't want to 'spoil the ship for a ha'pennyworth of tar' as my old Grandma used to say..............

That's another thing that cheeses me off about the FOS - that they take all this time to investigate, allowing the banks all kinds of excuses for dragging their feet, then expect us to make an important decision within 14 days :tinysmile_cry_t:

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

Bill,

Thanks for taking the time with this it is much appreciated I have until the 4th October before I need to reply so will hang it out a bit more no point rushing now is there until we are agreed that what they are offering is about right.

Regards

PF
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Nellie,

Thanks I should now with any luck have this all tied up by xmas which is my aim. ill wait until the bill gets back then compose a letter for the FOS outlining my stance as regards to compensation.

PF
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Right logging off for a while as wife has just got in from work and needs tea so ill be back in a while.

PF

[nelliewops]

Re: PPI and Court

Hi PF,

I'm so very pleased for you that this is looking like the end is in sight - I would definitely give it a try on the compensation front after all you've been put through. I did this with LTSB and succeeded in getting £300 compensation spread across 3 loans, although when I tried for it on the other 3 the FOS said LTSB insisted as they'd already paid some compo no more would be forthcoming..............mine as you know were dealt with as 4 separate complaints though.

Nellie x

[Bill-K]

Re: PPI and Court

My apologies for not getting back here as soon as I promised, PF. I agree with Sapphire that it doesn't seem right that compensatory interest should be liable for tax. That interest is paid as compensation for the fact that you were deprived of the 'enjoyment' of the money taken from you erroneously or unlawfully. That was YOUR money, on which any tax liable will have already be deemed to have been deducted in the year when you earned it. However, the 'enjoyment' of your money is taxable, I guess. If you spend it, then you may be taxed on that spending, via VAT, etc. If you invest it, then the profits from that investment are liable for tax. Such 'enjoyment' is taxable - but it doesn't seem fair, does it ?

Well done for posting up the breakdown of figures. It annoys me that what is supposed to be a breakdown of the bank's calculations is actually nothing more than a list of sub-totals, and we are not given any indication as to how those sub-totals have been calculated.

So far, I have only looked at the figures for loan 1, and the spreadsheet posted here for this suggests a total refund of £1847.31, whereas the bank appear to have offered £806.76. My own calculation comes to £874.71 as at 22/09/10, and I think the main difference between the posted spreadsheet and my own calculation is that the single-premium is treated as having been paid fully by you at the start of the loan, and it then has 8% interest added to it from the account inception date. This does not concur with the FOS method as described above, IMHO, as the single premium was not actually paid as a full payment at the loan inception, but was actually added to the loan balance. In effect, it is treated as a loan in its' own right. A portion of each monthly repayment then goes toward this PPI loan, along with monthly interest charged on it. This is the only amount that you actually PAID, and so it is the only amount that can be reclaimed with 8% interest added.

When the loan was settled, then a similar portion of the settlement amount (which was then carried forward to loan 2) was comprised of this PPI. This portion is then added as PPI to the opening balance of Loan 2.

There is another difference I can see with the loan 1 figures, in that the bank states that the total repaid to 09/10/00 was £2393.56 - whereas the spreadsheet shows that 19 repayments were made. If these were all for the agreed £132.98, then this comes to £2526.62, which is £133.06 more than the bank states.

Without wishing to discredit the original calculations, I attach my own here for comparison, as there is a very big difference in the way that the claim is calculated. I will follow through with the other loans ASAP.

[WendyB]

Re: PPI and Court

Wendy that is true, but they also declined to offer on the first policy but soon changed there mind once i read them the riot act lol

As you say still worth one more push.

PF

Well read it to them again then. But if the push don't work, then grab instead.......

[pompeyfaith]

Re: PPI and Court

but please mate, bear in mind that they have already "declined to offer any"

Wendy that is true, but they also declined to offer on the first policy but soon changed there mind once i read them the riot act lol

As you say still worth one more push.

PF