Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Budgie,

I agree - let sleeping dogs lie, for the moment anyway !

With regard to contacting IM before they contact me I'm not really sure - my 'initial' thought is that the courts have received everything from me, in the timescales we have been asked to work too, yet Irwin Mitchell seem to have shown the court no respect, to date, and have abused the cpr situation and the courts procedures / timescales ? The court has now put the ball firmly back in their 'court' so is the onus not now on them to comply with their instructions - not possibly for us to remind them ? (Just my 'initial' thoughts !) ?

IF I.M. don't make any contact then I don't understand why the court would put a stay on the claim - surely they'd acknowledge that I.M. brought the claim and then didn't follow it through and strengthen my case for it simply being thrown out ?

Still no CCA or similar has been forthcoming ! I can't help feeling this has just been an abuse of the judical system, hasn't it ?

By the way re. phone calls - I shouldn't get any of these as a) I don't think they have a number for me and b) I've previously written to them, anyway, telling them I'm only prepared to communicate in writing, just in case. They have NEVER been able to telephone me !

Please, Budgie, don't think I'm trying to undermine your fantastic assistance - I'm just trying to throw some 'thoughts' into the pot to help me 'understand' the situation better - ultimately I'm here for some 'advise' and appreciate all that is passed in my direction !

Kind regards,

R

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

No problems RB.

Re you contacting IM, it's there as an option. You cetrainly do not have to do so.

Lets see how we go this week and review on Friday.

As usual, I am sort of working to a strategy, will detail out all the options at the end of the week.

If anything changes during the week, don't worry we will deal with whatever happens.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks my dear Budgie.

I'll keep you posted, during the week, re. any contact etc...

BIG THANKS, YET AGAIN, for all your 'wise' words !

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Well Budgie....

Would it surprise you if I said I STILL haven't heard anything, at all, today ?

Well I haven't !

Will keep you posted.....................

Regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Tuesday update - still nothing !

Hopefully no news is (still) good news !

Regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie / Ame,

So, to update, nothing yesterday (Wed) or today (Thu).

Furthermore I telephoned Northampton CCBC today and they clarified:

a) The Claimant has not yet responded, to our defence, at all !
b) They informed me that they have 33 days, from the 1st December 2009 to respond. This takes us to the 3rd January 2010 BUT as this is a Sunday they have until Monday 4th January 2010 (NCCBC words, not mine),
c) They informed me that if they receive nothing by the 4th Jan 2010 then the claim will be 'stayed' and then they will have to apply to the Judge to get this lifted.
d) I questioned the above and said this surely isn't fair - after all they initiated the case against us yet if they can't be bothered to then respond why should they almost get another chance ? I said can't I just request it be "thrown out" ?
The very helpful young lady who I spoke with said that YES I can request this and furthermore she agreed to pop the relevant form/s in the post for me, ASAP ! Unsure what these are or how it works BUT seems like this may be an option ? In my (humble) opinion this seems fair enough !

Look forward to your much valued thoughts......

Kindest regards,

R
.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Ame.

I'd really appreciate Budgies thoughts on this possible course of action ?

Kind regards,

R

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi Budgie / Ame,

So, to update, nothing yesterday (Wed) or today (Thu).

Furthermore I telephoned Northampton CCBC today and they clarified:

a) The Claimant has not yet responded, to our defence, at all !
b) They informed me that they have 33 days, from the 1st December 2009 to respond. This takes us to the 3rd January 2010 BUT as this is a Sunday they have until Monday 4th January 2010 (NCCBC words, not mine),
c) They informed me that if they receive nothing by the 4th Jan 2010 then the claim will be 'stayed' and then they will have to apply to the Judge to get this lifted.
d) I questioned the above and said this surely isn't fair - after all they initiated the case against us yet if they can't be bothered to then respond why should they almost get another chance ? I said can't I just request it be "thrown out" ?
The very helpful young lady who I spoke with said that YES I can request this and furthermore she agreed to pop the relevant form/s in the post for me, ASAP ! Unsure what these are or how it works BUT seems like this may be an option ? In my (humble) opinion this seems fair enough !

Look forward to your much valued thoughts......

Kindest regards,

R
.

To be completely honest I'm glas you have till January before you have to decide on the next steps. Things will be clearer after the OFT announcement which hopefully will be between now and Christmas.

Yes the bank will get another chance if they miss the 4 January deadline to respond to the Defence. If you ask for a strike they can come back and set it aside (think they'll have 7 days after the strike out notification) - if you don't agree to the set aside it will go to a hearing, for which costs are then on your shoulders unless they don't get it, which they invaribly do. So I'd be happy with the 4th lapsing and a general stay applying. We can write to Irwins at that point too and give them a poke in the bum. I completely understand you dont want this just sitting on general stay for the foreseeable future and want it sorted. But court claims are kind of a game of chess and you do need to have patience, and good tactics .

You have defended the claim in full havent you regarding their lack of complaince with your CPR request, if they comply with this and respond to the defence then we should be ready to go back with the offer to pay on the uncontested portion of the debt so if you're chomping at the bit wanting to do something you can get your Income Expenditure forms done - Legal Beagles - I'd use the CFS sheet as its more comprehensive,. If you email it me I can check it over for you and look at any other issues we might have.

Regardless I'll kick bud over in case he disagrees with me lol.

Have you heard anything seperately from Shoosmiths btw ?

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Hi RB,

Sorry for delay in getting back to you.

I totally agree with everything that Ame has posted.

Easiest thing to do now is sit tight and wait till after Xmas.

We don't necessarily want to do anything to alert IM to the fact that they need to do something in terms of attempting a settlement with you and / or contact the Court to inform them that they wish to proceed with the claim.

On the other hand I know you really want to bring this whole matter to a close overall.

I really think it would be foolish to try and get the claim thrown out, all that will happen is that NatWest will instruct another Solicitor to start another claim, probably against you instead of your wife and we will be back at square one again.

I really think the best option is to wait until 4th January and if IM do nothing beforehand then we try and negotiate a settlement figure ( the outstanding balance minus your total charges and compound interest ), the freezing of that figure and a repayment agreement for that figure based on a monthly amount that you can afford based on your financial circumstances.

That way you avoid any future court action, provided you keep up the repayments, get the charges reimbursed and cause IM some embaarassment with both the Court and Natwest.

All in all a brilliant result and one which I think you should be incredibly proud of if we can pull it off.

We can get a letter ready for IM, on that basis, ready to go.

If IM decide to do anything themselves before 4th January then we can review the best course of action at that time. As back up we have IM's failure to respond to your CPR 31.14 request up our sleeves anyway so matters can still be twisted to your advantage even if IM do decide to get their fingers out and progress the court claim.

Your current balance on the account was around £4500.
By the way are Nat West continuing to add interest and charges onto the account, I think you said they were, if so, are there any other charges since the last time we looked at this. Do you have all your statements for the account for say the last two years?

Based on a straight compound interest claim I would be looking to try to negotiate a reduction of £2800 off this balance ( approx £1000 charges plus £1800 interest ) leaving a final settlelment figure of £1700 ( £4500-£2800 )

But if you have all the statement copies we might even be able to calculate an even higher reduction figure. It's all down to your usage of the account and the timing of charges and interest rate and application of interest to the account.

Ame asked if you could complete an Income and Expenditure form, this is vital because it will help to analyse what you can actually afford to pay, on a monthly basis off the reduced balance / settlement figure. Please email this to me or PM to Ame if you prefer. Additionally, are there any other bank or, more importantly credit card accounts where you have incurred charges in the past that we could look at getting refunds sorted out?

Rgds Budgie

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Good morning Ame & Budgie,

First and foremost please accept my sincere apologies for my late reply - no excuses !

Secondly thank you both, yet again, for your much valued comments and assistance.

Thirdly, to update, as of Monday (21st Dec.) I have still not received anything from Irwin Mitchell OR Natwest.

Ame (in reply to your last post):
I'm glad that you're pleased that we don't really have to do anything until early January (2010) ! I'll eagerly await the OFT announcement - whenever this maybe ?

I'm certainly up for the 'chess challenge' and in this for the 'long term' so maybe my past comments have been somewhat hasty - lets forget the strike out and concentrate on reaching the point of the case being stayed !

(By the way, yesterday (Mon 21st) I DID receive the promised paperwork, from Northants CCBC. which comprises of a covering letter, a double sided form titled "Application Notice" (N244 ?) and a Notes For Guidance sheet. I'll file this, for the time being ! I should add this was sent at my request and should not be misconstrued as NCCBC sending me anything which MUST BE completed - I don't think so, anyway ! ? ! ?))

I can confirm I have defended the claim, in full, and mentioned that they haven't complied with my CPR request. With regard to the Income / expenditure form I haven't even looked at this, just yet ! Can you please advise what the CFS sheet is (excuse my ignorance - ooops, sorry, I'll check your link first !). Thanks for offering to check this over, once I've completed it ! Do I need to get on with this or (taking into account its almost Christmas, and I have a young family) can it wait for a little while, yet ? If it needs doing now then of course I'll get on with it ?

Please don't kick Budgie as I don't want to hassle him too much, particularly at this 'family' time of year (sorry Budgie - looks like you may have already taken a kick to the shins !) !

Finally NO I haven't heard anymore from Shoosmiths, at all ! They've gone quiet, for the moment - I suspect they're watching the Irwin Mitchell situation with baited breath and waiting their (second attempt !) turn, should I.M. fail ?

I'll reply to Budgies post in a few minutes...........

Thanks Ame,

Here's wishing you a very Merry Christmas & Happy New Year,

Kind regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Good morning Budgie,

ONCE AGAIN:

First and foremost please accept my sincere apologies for my late reply - no excuses !

Secondly thank you, yet again, for your much valued comments and assistance.

Thirdly, to update, as of Monday (21st Dec.) I have still not received anything from Irwin Mitchell OR Natwest.

Budgie (in reply to your last post):
Please see above post, to Ame.

Having given this some thought I agree lets forget the strike out and I'll keep my fingers crossed we can achieve a stay ?

I agree with your suggestions and particularly (quote) "All in all a brilliant result and one which I think you should be incredibly proud of if we can pull it off." - Lets hope we CAN pull it off ?

The only thing thats now running through my mind is that I'd rather have this claim removed from my wife and targetted at me, as I feel responsible !!!! (Please remember my earlier posts and PM !) !!! Maybe this is the wrong way to go, though ?

Anyway, do we get the I.M. letter "ready to go", ASAP, now then OR wait until 4th Jan 2010 ?

I wonder - do you think we'll hear from I.M. prior to 4th Jan 2010 now ? My instinct is that we may not BUT.... hey..... I'm no expert !

Correct the balance is 'approx. £4500' !

Natwest are no longer adding interest BUT during the period from when I pleaded financial hardship (Jan to Sep 2009) and they issued the claim, through I.M, they have added approx £800 in interest and charges (whilst the account wasn't used, at all. BTW this action is what solely also took me over the previously agreed credt / overdraft limit). I must emphasise this is interest as well as charges !

You may recall earlier posts and PM's which I believe we established your counterclaim figures were far higher than mine - you believed my (moneysavingexpert) spreadsheet had 'under-calculated' the interest I should be claiming ! I believe you said you would pop my supplied figures onto your own spreadsheet to calculate the true, far higher, 'counterclaim' figure ?

You'll be pleased to hear I'm pretty good with paperwork (and court claim paperwork chains etc...) and I have actually got ALL STATEMENTS since the account was opened - way back in April 1999 ! You may recall my 2 x 'claims' (to Natwest NOT court !) ? These only went back 6 years which I believed was all I could do ? Are you saying we maybe able to back track almost 10 years now ? I have ALL (approx. another 10+ years) statements for this (sole) account too ! If this is the case we may well find the estimated £1700 balance could be reduced even further ?

From your comments I guess my next job is to work on the income / expenditure form now then ? How quickly do we need to get this together ? By the way I'd rather PM than post this in the forum - I trust this is OK ? Who would like this or shall I let you both have a look ?

As a final note no I don't believe there are any other Bank Accounts that we can look at (unless we want to go back over 10 years and look at my previous (sole) NatWest account which was immediately prior to when I closed it in favour of this (joint) one ?)

Credit cards is another issue which I believe (?) I'm already on top of - if you'd like to know more then I'll gladly bring you up to speed on these !

Thanks again, Budgie,

Kind regards,

R

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

PS

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/today?prid=677382

I guess this throws a completely differen t light on our situation ?

Interestin g to see how we proceed, from here ?

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

It doesnt change a thing as far as your individual situation is concerned RB.

The ball is still firmly in the court of IM ( excuse the pun )

No change to plans, at present.

[R B 1968]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

Thanks Budgie,

Re. my post (131) - can we look back, at charges, further than 6 years ago ?

Did you ever manage to transfer my charges figures (moneysaving expert spreadsheet) to your own spreadsheet, by any chance (sorry I don't wish to be any trouble but I believe this was possibly mentioned, in the past ?) ?

To recap are we now sitting tight until the 4th Jan or am I / are we actually preparing anything else over the festive period ?

You say thet the OFT decision won't affect my case, Budgie, but if the OFT aren't pursuing will the court still stay this case ?

If they stay then on what grounds if its not pending the OFT's decision ?

Sorry to ask so many questions !

Kindest regards,

R

[Budgie]

Re: Court Claim Help Please - Natwest / Irwin Mitchell

As usual, responses in festive red

Thanks Budgie,

Re. my post (131) - can we look back, at charges, further than 6 years ago ?
Yes, we can, and you have the statements so thats great, we have arguments we can use ref Limitation period so no need to worry on that score.

Did you ever manage to transfer my charges figures (moneysaving expert spreadsheet) to your own spreadsheet, by any chance (sorry I don't wish to be any trouble but I believe this was possibly mentioned, in the past ?) ?
Yes, I did and thats where I got the figures I calculated and posted earlier.
If you would like something to do you could start a fresh spreadsheet ( Here Legal Beagles ) and put all of your charges ( back to 1999 ) into it. It's best to do this on a brand new fresh spreadsheet rather than add them to the ones I have. The link I have given is for the statutory interest spreadsheet but once you have them in there its easy just to copy and paste them into a compound interest version for comparison. My reason for asking if you had statements was more in relation to checking to see how your balance had risen on this account through the application of charges and overdraft interest in practice. I will come back to this over the Xmas period.

To recap are we now sitting tight until the 4th Jan or am I / are we actually preparing anything else over the festive period ? You could compile the spreadsheet referred to above and I plan to work on a witness statement for you. However as far as the Court and IM goes then just sit tight for now.

You say thet the OFT decision won't affect my case, Budgie, but if the OFT aren't pursuing will the court still stay this case ? The Court orders stating that IM should contact you to discuss settlement or contact the court to state whether they intended to continue had very very little to do with the OFT's decision. The combination of events and circumstances of your case haven't changed and we can still make out an exceptionally good counterclaim for you if we need to.

If they stay then on what grounds if its not pending the OFT's decision ?
The stay would be to allow you time to resolve the situation regarding the CPR 31.14 request failure of IM, submit a counterclaim etc. However, I suggest that if IM do not contact you ( as they have been ordered by the Court, then we try to resolve the matter with them ( making you look good as far as the Court is concerned ) by suggesting a settlement, ie reduce amount owed by charges and compound interest, arrive at revised amount owed and make an offer to settle this at a monthly payment that you can afford taking into account your circumstances.

I really want this situation to be resolved, to your satisfaction and not to be hanging around your neck for weeks and months into the New Year.

Sorry to ask so many questions !

Kindest regards,

R