Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

Yes its section 52.8, 2 (c) criminal procedure rules part 52(Enforcement of fines)

The person must show the warrant if that person has it.

If the defendant asks he must arrange for the debtor to see the warrant if he does not have it.(sic)

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

In that case ia PDF or whatever should be printed off "As Is" and not edited or re made in Word by marstons, to suit them. Any alteration could therefore be fraudulent or at worse tantamount to a treasonous act, as they seek to usurp Crown Authority with their own Walt Disney warrants.

You are correct that the warrant must be printed off "as is". Any alteration to a warrant that is not authorised by a court could have the effect of rendering a warrant invalid and unenforceable. You are probably correct about Marstons' Walt Disney warrants being fraudulent and there may well be an offence or offences under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act by them doing so as well.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

In that case ia PDF or whatever should be printed off "As Is" and not edited or re made in Word by marstons, to suit them. Any alteration could therefore be fraudulent or at worse tantamount to a treasonous act, as they seek to usurp Crown Authority with their own Walt Disney warrants.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

The way he SI is worded seems to say that the bailiff can legally enforce a warrant without having it in his possession, but if asked he must make it available for inspection.
The question I am asking is, would the debtor have the right to tell him to "sling his hook" until he saw the document in that case.

In other words it is down to the debtor, if he says nothing then the bailiff can legally continue the enforcement, however if he asks to see the original the enforcement cannot continue until he does.

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I have just been on the phone to the magistrates court and they are adamant that the bailiff had the authority to clamp my car with the distress warrant he has and does not need a separate clamping order! I suspected they would say this.

As for my vulnerability as a single parent I need to put it in writing to Marstons as they have a welfare team who assess this.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I am today going to make some telephone calls to verify some information and hopefully get some answers.

Once I have any updates I will update on here.

I am taking thew advice of bluebottle and will be in contact with him shortly.

Thanks, kim

Bluebottle will help you with what you need to do, one thing is certain, marstons and HMCS have some questions to answer, and it doesn't look good for them.

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I am today going to make some telephone calls to verify some information and hopefully get some answers.

Once I have any updates I will update on here.

I am taking thew advice of bluebottle and will be in contact with him shortly.

Thanks, kim

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Any warrant issued by a criminal court must be produced on demand. The only exception I know of is in the case of arrest warrants issued for non-appearance before a magistrates court, aka Bench Warrants, as these go straight onto the Wanted/Missing Persons Index on the Police National Computer and the police can check at any time, simply by radioing through to their control room and asking if a person is wanted.

As to whether a private-sector bailiff enforcing a Distress Warrant issued by a magistrates court could get away with a Mickey Mouse warrant they've knocked up on Microsoft Word, I very much doubt it. IMHO, an alleged debtor would be within their rights to ask to see any alleged warrant before entering into any dialogue with any bailiff claiming to be acting on behalf of HMCTS. If the warrant is not an exact copy of the actual warrant as issued by the court, bearing the Royal Crest, I would be tempted to tell the bailiff to take a hike.

The way he SI is worded seems to say that the bailiff can legally enforce a warrant without having it in his possession, but if asked he must make it available for inspection.
The question I am asking is, would the debtor have the right to tell him to "sling his hook" until he saw the document in that case.

In other words it is down to the debtor, if he says nothing then the bailiff can legally continue the enforcement, however if he asks to see the original the enforcement cannot continue until he does.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Equita?

It is quite possible the government would like to put all their eggs in the Crapita family basket, and appoint Equita, or even Ross 'n Robbers

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Kim,

I'm going to send you a PM.

Kim, follow the advice and content of bluebottle's pm, this baiiff, Marstons and HMCS could well be in the carp.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just a thought regarding the production of the warrant. The SI sates that a warrant must be shown, or if the officer does not have it and the debtor asks they must arrange for them to see it.

My thought is, given the fact that a warrant is usually regarded as proof of the authority to carry out a legal process, and in all other usages(that i can think of, search warrant etc.) it has to be presented at he time of execution.

Could the section be interpreted to mean that the warrant can only be enforced when the debtor has seen it, if he expresses the wish.

In other words if the bailiff called and did not have the warrant and the debtor asked to see it, wouldn't the bailiff have to show it to him before he could continue enforcement.

Any warrant issued by a criminal court must be produced on demand. The only exception I know of is in the case of arrest warrants issued for non-appearance before a magistrates court, aka Bench Warrants, as these go straight onto the Wanted/Missing Persons Index on the Police National Computer and the police can check at any time, simply by radioing through to their control room and asking if a person is wanted.

As to whether a private-sector bailiff enforcing a Distress Warrant issued by a magistrates court could get away with a Mickey Mouse warrant they've knocked up on Microsoft Word, I very much doubt it. IMHO, an alleged debtor would be within their rights to ask to see any alleged warrant before entering into any dialogue with any bailiff claiming to be acting on behalf of HMCTS. If the warrant is not an exact copy of the actual warrant as issued by the court, bearing the Royal Crest, I would be tempted to tell the bailiff to take a hike.

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just read the thread so far- WOW

Let's not forget that all this happened because of a TV Licence fine- Makes a mockery of the whole system

Like yourself and others this happened to, Marstons are only interested because of damage limitation; after all, I bet they have been invited to tender as said in a previous post & do not want adverse comments being made. If they were indeed interested in sorting something out, they would be taking an interest in these threads.

I seriously doubt that they are even slightly interested in ameliorating what they do, as they largely rely on fear (or terror) to get their inflated fees.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

So basically the bailiff did not have the right to clamp my car in the first place then, just as I originally thought.

Tomorrow I will be on the phone to the courts to sort out this sorry mess.

The bailiff in question is A Chapman, I have been informed that his bailiff license expired on 17/1/12. It was issued at Ipswich county court.

I will telephone them tomorrow to find out if he has had it renewed but I doubt it as it is a whole year out of date and the records have not been updated on Ministry of justice website ad they could not find any record of him when I phoned them

Kim,

I'm going to send you a PM.

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I understand there is a contract out to tender from the MOJ on behalf of HMCTS and I also understand it is envisaged just 1 enforcement company will be engaged.

Equita?

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just a thought regarding the production of the warrant. The SI sates that a warrant must be shown, or if the officer does not have it and the debtor asks they must arrange for them to see it.

My thought is, given the fact that a warrant is usually regarded as proof of the authority to carry out a legal process, and in all other usages(that i can think of, search warrant etc.) it has to be presented at he time of execution.

Could the section be interpreted to mean that the warrant can only be enforced when the debtor has seen it, if he expresses the wish.

In other words if the bailiff called and did not have the warrant and the debtor asked to see it, wouldn't the bailiff have to show it to him before he could continue enforcement.