Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

[MissFM]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I always find it interesting when people think they could do a better job than the Prime Minister (I know you didn't say that Miss FM). The Prime Minister's job is immensely complex to a degree that nobody on this site I suspect, understands. There are so many facets to it, and I also find it interesting that despite these apparent successive failures over the past years, the standard of living for the vast majority of the population has risen beyond all proportion.

Are you sure this is true?

This does sort of beg the question, have they really done so badly? This is relevant whatever persuasion you are politically.

There's also the issue with the democratic system that will never be overcome that people will, at the end of the day, 99.9% of the time vote for what is best for them. This could be massively different to what is best for the country.

The PM's are all highly educated, intelligent people. I'm not sure they abuse their position quite as much as we think though; they have a very tough job, and there are decisions they have to make routinely on a daily basis that us normal mortals will not even have thought of.

Labman, much as I respect you and loath to disagree with you I don't see an "ever onwards and upwards" progression in this country (or the "global community"), much as I would like to.

I see an increasing cynicism and a predilection for wars - let's not euphemise this too much, it means that you deal with disagreements by killing people - destroying their bodies, calling the killing of innocents "collateral damage" - in order to progress personal political aims.

As regards your statement on the standard of living: the movement of wealth is now more than ever flowing towards those that already have it and the poor are becoming poorer - ie the gap is widening between rich and poor. This is bad for everyone because the rich don't spend (or pay taxes!) and the poor can't so the economy is effed.

Just saying.

[labman]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I don't mind you disagreeing with me Miss FM. I am pretty certain about the standard of living - this site is interesting reading, showing things since 1948:

http://www.localhistories.org/britain1948.html

I think what you overlook is everything is comparative. It also depends, of course, on how far we are going back to ascertain facts about the rise or otherwise in the standard of living.

Sorry I can't put any smilies - I'm tethered to my mobile in our caravan and they won't post! :-))))))

[MissFM]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

It's not how far we go back - of course post WW2 no-one sane would disagree that standards of living rose exponentially.

But.....

since the 1980's and beyond there has been a far more sinister trend, which has also magnified exponentially in terms of decay in the last couple of decades.... :madgrin:

Maybe it's just a natural cycle - or maybe not? :evil:

[Guest]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

Labman, much as I respect you and loath to disagree with you I don't see an "ever onwards and upwards" progression in this country (or the "global community"), much as I would like to.

I see an increasing cynicism and a predilection for wars - let's not euphemise this too much, it means that you deal with disagreements by killing people - destroying their bodies, calling the killing of innocents "collateral damage" - in order to progress personal political aims.

As regards your statement on the standard of living: the movement of wealth is now more than ever flowing towards those that already have it and the poor are becoming poorer - ie the gap is widening between rich and poor. This is bad for everyone because the rich don't spend (or pay taxes!) and the poor can't so the economy is effed.

Just saying.

For collateral damage(lives) and the and pointless use of human lives, I think 1917 takes a lot of beating, well before any of the present lot were even a glint in their grandfathers eyes
I am afraid the standard of living of the ordinary person has risen , probably to quickly, our kids now take for granted the flat screed TV and the mobile phone.
I hate to sound like a Mony Python sketch , but when I was a lad, tin bath, three in a bed room, toilet t'thend of't garden, no one had even heard of central heating, yes I think that we live better mow as a whole, not to say that we don't have a complete new array of problems, but that is just the way that society is evolving it is not down to the machinations of some evil empire.

[Guest]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

It's not how far we go back - of course post WW2 no-one sane would disagree that standards of living rose exponentially.

But.....

since the 1980's and beyond there has been a far more sinister trend, which has also magnified exponentially in terms of decay in the last couple of decades.... :madgrin:

Maybe it's just a natural cycle - or maybe not? :evil:

Sorry but I don't agree even there, having worked in the voluntary sector for the last twenty odd years, don't get me wrong things are bad , but comparatively the conditions of some off the regeneration estates and areas are far better than they sere in the eighties.

[MissFM]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

Oh yes Ms Fm I am afraid the standard of living of the ordinary person has risen , probably to quickly, our kids now take for granted the flat screed TV and the mobile phone.
I hate to sound like a Mony Python sketch , but when I was a lad, tin bath, three in a bed room, toilet t'thend of't garden, no one had even heard of central heating, yes I think that we live better mow as a whole, not to say that we don't have a complete new array of problems, but that is just the way that society is evolving it is not down to the machinations of some evil empire.

Shoebox in't middle of t'road?

I remember it well but remain unconvinced either way about the subject of this thread. I think it dangerous to dismiss the suggestion of a conspiracy as the basis of any collective wrongdoing, even if the vast majority of players are simply sucked in

[labman]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I wonder if there really has, or if it's just an awful lot easier now to make everyone aware of what is happening. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty goes on that I disagree with, as you know. However, I think there is a lot of discontent over the feeling that Britain should look after its own first, before spending (or possibly wasting) billions of pounds in other countries.

I was horrified to discover that people getting deported from the country get a healthy handout from the government to ensure they can set up in the country to which they're going - why?

Why do we spend however much it is to fight in Afghanistan when the money could be spent in this country?

The list is almost endless. Getting back to the thread though, I am yet to be convinced that the people elected by us, with our own freewill, suddenly turn into demons and start trying to destroy everything.

As I alluded to earlier, I think some of the problems are so big now, if someone honest came in and stood up for everything that needs doing to the welfare state - benefits, healthcare paid for by the NHS, etc... they wouldn't stand a chance of getting in. The public is so 'corrupt' or egotistical, that they would look after their own interests which would almost certainly stop that person getting in.

PM's have to fight the very people they're serving. They do come up with the most ridiculous of ideas at times though!

[MissFM]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

Sorry but I don't agree even there, having worked in the voluntary sector for the last twenty odd years, don't get me wrong things are bad , but comparatively the conditions of some off the regeneration estates and areas are far better than they sere in the eighties.

I wasn't born yesterday either, Andy. I guess it's a matter of how you interpret your experience and what you see as better or worse. And where you choose to look. :decision: x

[MissFM]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I wonder if there really has, or if it's just an awful lot easier now to make everyone aware of what is happening. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty goes on that I disagree with, as you know. However, I think there is a lot of discontent over the feeling that Britain should look after its own first, before spending (or possibly wasting) billions of pounds in other countries.

I was horrified to discover that people getting deported from the country get a healthy handout from the government to ensure they can set up in the country to which they're going - why?

Why do we spend however much it is to fight in Afghanistan when the money could be spent in this country?

The list is almost endless. Getting back to the thread though, I am yet to be convinced that the people elected by us, with our own freewill, suddenly turn into demons and start trying to destroy everything.

As I alluded to earlier, I think some of the problems are so big now, if someone honest came in and stood up for everything that needs doing to the welfare state - benefits, healthcare paid for by the NHS, etc... they wouldn't stand a chance of getting in. The public is so 'corrupt' or egotistical, that they would look after their own interests which would almost certainly stop that person getting in.

PM's have to fight the very people they're serving. They do come up with the most ridiculous of ideas at times though!

I may be wrong, Labs, but I don't think that is the suggestion - I think that the suggestion is that people are groomed long before they come to power just in case. Sounds crazy, doesn't it?

[charitynjw]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I hate to sound like a Mony Python sketch , but when I was a lad, tin bath, three in a bed room, toilet t'thend of't garden

Shoebox in't middle of t'road?

"................& if you told that to the folks terday, they wouldn't believe you!"

Just saying!

[enquirer]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I do concur with BillK who said, some way back, that the likes of Blair & Cameron are highly intelligent and educated men - so why do they behave as they do? However tempting it is to dismiss them and "call them names", that is counterproductive: the fact is that they are not "stupid" or " moronic" and, particularly in the case of Blair, they have (had) enormous power (an overwhelming democratic mandate) which could have been used to do good - yet it wasn't - quite the opposite. Why?

Just so.

When a career politician doesn't do something that would make him enormously popular, it's because someone else is pulling the strings.

[enquirer]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

They all seem to be part of the same spider's web as CP.

The Octopus.

[Guest]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

Just so.

When a career politician doesn't do something that would make him enormously popular, it's because someone else is pulling the strings.

Nah it just means that an election is not around the corner.

[labman]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I've been away for a few days, but I see there's still no solid evidence to prove the evil intent of these people. It's beginning to look like an attempt to explain things that most of us don't understand fully.

[bluebottle]

Re: Common Purpose and the Post Democratic Era

I've been away for a few days, but I see there's still no solid evidence to prove the evil intent of these people. It's beginning to look like an attempt to explain thisngs that most of us don't understand fully.

Watch UK Column Live on YouTube, LM, and things should become clearer.