Help with Popla appeal - WON

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Definitely no ticket on the car, first I knew about the fine was when I got the letter.

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Perfect. Add that on then. They should not win on that alone.

M1

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Hope so..I am going to submit tomorrow...will keep you updated whatever the outcome...thanks so much for your help and support

regards

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Hi M1,

Just a quick update - received the usual comms - stating acknowledgement of appeal and a date of the hearing - all sounds very formal - do I need to present my evidence on that day or is that for Excel to present their case by that date?

Another question - have been pondering over the appeal I sent through and reading that of others - just wanted your opinion on the following:

Looks like these companies are covering their tracks and meeting the breaches in contract that they were pulled up on initially. In the case of Excel - they are now the owners of the said car park and I noticed they have named themselves as "creditors" on the PCN - as they are putting ticks in most of the boxes.

I am baffled about the breach in relation to signage - how many times can they possibly lose an appeal based on the format of the signage?, surely it was a strong basis, they would lose all their appeals on that alone?...and why have they not corrected the signage (is it because it is not seen as a major breach)?

And finally - sorry if this should be a separate thread - will create on if need be - my friend who parked in the same car park is in the same situation - only wish I had the chance to warn her before parking there. Anyway she appeal the PCN to excel and only received a reply this week - the letter is dated as issued a lot earlier but she physically received it late - the post mark is a CN number of some sort with no date - just delivered by Royal Mail and a few letters and numbers - can she dispute the fact that the response was received longer than 35 days after the appeal letter was sent?

Sorry about all the questions - however I am sure others probably require some of these answer so hopefully useful for all.

many thanks

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Just a quick update - received the usual comms - stating acknowledgement of appeal and a date of the hearing - all sounds very formal - do I need to present my evidence on that day or is that for Excel to present their case by that date?

You don't need to do anything until they supply their evidence pack to you. As the "claimant" (operator) it is up to them to prove their claim. Your appeal wins if they do not refute it.

Looks like these companies are covering their tracks and meeting the breaches in contract that they were pulled up on initially. In the case of Excel - they are now the owners of the said car park and I noticed they have named themselves as "creditors" on the PCN - as they are putting ticks in most of the boxes.

They are getting better at some aspects but the kid on stuff (that it's not a penalty blah blah blah) is too hard to get around.

I am baffled about the breach in relation to signage - how many times can they possibly lose an appeal based on the format of the signage?, surely it was a strong basis, they would lose all their appeals on that alone?...and why have they not corrected the signage (is it because it is not seen as a major breach)?

It depends on what appellants such as you raise as a challenge in your appeal. Each one is individual even if identical. Popla don't keep a tally or have powers to intervene in anything other than the appeal at hand.

And finally - sorry if this should be a separate thread - will create on if need be - my friend who parked in the same car park is in the same situation - only wish I had the chance to warn her before parking there. Anyway she appeal the PCN to excel and only received a reply this week - the letter is dated as issued a lot earlier but she physically received it late - the post mark is a CN number of some sort with no date - just delivered by Royal Mail and a few letters and numbers - can she dispute the fact that the response was received longer than 35 days after the appeal letter was sent?

I'd add it to the appeal and also fire it off to the BPA as a complaint.

M1

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Hi M1, I received a evidence pack today not sure what it all means but they seem to have responded to all the appeal items - the file is very large - is it possible to forward the email somehow?

regards

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Send it to admin@legalbeagles.info and ask [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] to pop it up

I'm out all day tomorrow but will look at it asap.

M1

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Pop it up tsk... it's huge.

I'll make a link for it - is this the bundle they put into court in each case ?





.

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

http://legalbeagles.info/snowhill-parking/

Just shout if I missed anything.

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Thank you Amethyst - much appreciated.

[kimcatz]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

M1,

Please can you let me know if I need to respond to Popla in relation to the pack - in particular all the images they have submit are in the day time - they have not included any signage images during the evening when it was dark and none of the lamp were lit.

regards

Kim

[Amethyst]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

No problem kimcatz.

This isn't helpful to your case, just first time I've seen that genuine pre-estimate of loss.

ALL the items on that list are because they have decided to fine people ridiculous sums of money for parking and not having a ticket. To me a genuine pre-estimate of loss is the actual loss caused by parking in a space without paying. So really the loss is the ticket price they have lost because someone else who had paid hadn't been able to park there. The rest is self inflicted b*llocks ?

Or is that the argument anyway ?

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

At work just now so will reply asap. Look up shite in your thesaurus it should say excel.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

I'll respond properly either tomorrow or monday but their evidence pack has contravention date 1/12 and pcn issued 19/12.

(4)The notice must be given by—


(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or


(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.


(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

#fail

M1

[mystery1]

Re: Help with Popla appeal

Excel state
" The Tariff board at the point of sale states: “Parking Charge Notices will be issued for the following: - Failure to purchase and/or clearly display a valid permit/ticket ”." It also states that a PCN will be issued for " failure to clearly display a dvla vehicle license disc"

Reply :-

There can be no clearer evidence than the operators own words that this is in fact a penalty. If a driver purchases a ticket there is no loss. The charge is clearly to deter the motorist from not displaying a ticket. This attracts the same charge as lorries who take up more than one space but in any event are not allowedor failure to display a tax disc which has nothing to do with Excel and costs them absolutely nothing at all, ever.. As clear a case of a deterrent penalty as their can be.



The GPEOL statement included by Excel include business cost, costs which have no basis at all, costs of POPLA and costs which the claim on the signs which will be in addition to the PCN. Are they part of the PCN or not ? Excel want to have their cake and eat it.

Excel also list many cases on penalties and state the the charges are not unconscionable however DJ Mahy in Parking Eye v Cargius strongly disagreed and ruled that Parking Eye v Beavis did not apply to pay and display car parks an the charge of £100 is a penalty.


Excel state that " The registered keepers detail were requested 17 days after the contravention was observed"

Reply :-

As the registered keeper, PoFA 2012 schedule 4 applies. The ticket was issued as a result of an ANPR camera. PoFA states at 9
"(4)The notice must be given by—




(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or




(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.




(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."

Excel have failed to fulfil the requirements of PoFA to establish keeper liability.




I'd reply to pola with that just for safety although you should win anyway.

M1