Neighbours from hell/ legal insurance difficulties

[Blinkin73]

I wrote the following about 4 hours ago.
I was then called away on a family matter, so haven't finished yet.
Please remember that posters here are all volunteers who have other lives, so sometimes responses on unusual or difficult matters may be delayed.


For a nuisance you need to show your neighbour's actions have caused an interference with your enjoyment of the land.

For harassment you need to show your neighbour's behaviour is intended to cause you distress or alarm, and it has occurred on more than one occasion

At least a discussion with Irwin Mitchell is a move forward for you.

I'll try and read those policy extracts over the next 24 hours and then get back to you

Thank you so much. I do understand that people are volunteers. Im very grateful for any advice.

I read up on both nuisance and harassment (revisiting my days as a law student) and the concept of malice in nuisance blurred the lines between nuisance and harassment to my mind because it seems clear that you can deliberately cause nuisance to cause distress.

I'm trying to brace myself for a disappointing outcome following my conversation with Irwin Mitchell. I imagine if I'm lucky funding for a strong cease and desist letter will be agreed. If my neighbours a quiet for a year after that I may have a chance to sell my property for what it's worth. I know that the Law isn't about fairness, but there should be some consequences for people like my neighbours.

[des8]

Don't forget your policy has an excess (£250?), so the policy is unlikely to fund a cease and desist letter on its own.
I suspect your negotiations with I&M will end with the insurers either accepting or rejecting your claim

I agree that the policy does not cover harassment.

Sec 4 damage to property only relates to physical damage to your property, so not any reduction in value, but does cover
legal action relating to a legal nuisance.
However it seems there is an ongoing trespass, but it might be considered minimal

See how it goes with I&M before deciding on your next move.
It is perfectly possible to seek an injunction without the assistance of a solicitor, but if it is disputed and you fail it could be expensive.
If you intend to go down that route might I suggest you start keeping a diary of events and obtain noise monitoring equipment to record the volume accurately

Have you checked if your neighbours actually own the property? They may just be terrible tenants (my son in law has just paid out over £6000 refurbishing a property trashed by a tenant... and my s-i-l is a builder)
check on land registry for £3 here https://www.gov.uk/get-information-a...h-the-register

If you are frustrated trying to contact the council online/by phone, then write to them. Their CEO will welcome a recorded delivery letter.

Regarding solicitors being the gateway to barristers .... there are direct access barristers you could approach.

[Blinkin73]

Thank you very much for your reply des8 and your opinion on the policy. Im aware of £250 excess. Along with the trespass, there's an ongoing risk of damage to my property due to neighbours allowing really tall Bamboo and fir trees to grow right beside my conservatory. And I mean Bamboo growing 2cms from a wall, and a series of fir trees growing over 2.5 metres high 20 cms from the same wall.

Yes I've checked that my owners own the property. I had to sent the land registry documents to my legal insurance company as part of the claims process.

I've began keeping a diary and recording events on my phone, tablet and CCTV from June 2021, when it became obvious that they were very anti social people who appear to want to dominate the area around them.

I think I do need to speak to someone impartial about the case. I hadnt thought about direct access barristers. Thank you. I will wait until the outcome of my chat with U/M.

Though I've not heard anything from the police, I think they may have had a strong word with my neighbours....again. The last two days my neighbours have been really quiet. Usually after ive reported them to the police theyve just upped the ante. I think the police didn't take kindly to my neighbours making false allegations to them recently which were easily disproved due to my CCTV. Ive a missed call from victim support too.

I would be surprised if my neighbours defended any claim. They know how they've behaved and that I've lots of recordings of them acting unreasonably. They know it costs a lot to go to Court and that most people can't afford this. I think that's what they've been banking on. The fact is whilst they can afford alcohol and drugs and a 10 year old SUV they can't afford to renovate the house they purchased next door and they can't afford any form of window dressing to allow their kids some privacy in their bedrooms in the evenings.

[Blinkin73]

So the quiet period didn't last long at all. When I say quiet period, I could still hear my neighbours but it was in the realms of normal noise and behaviour I see and hear from other neighbors. It was bliss

However my neighbours are back to their old tricks. The Arsenal game was a nightmare, I took myself off to a tiny polytunnel I constructed at the end of my garden for such purposes but could still hear the shouts loudly despite being over 120ft away. My neighbours had all their windows and doors open and even people on the street in front of their house were remarking about the noise. A neighbour a few doors down who was parking their car noted that if his kids were making that much noise he was tell them off.

After the match my male neighbour chose to sit right by my concervatory doors and have a telephone call about the match where he shouted and swore and referred to me as a "freak" for some reason".

My neighbours have been really loud, shouting on their phones really really loudly with their back doors open, swearing lots in the garden, making remarks about me playing with my puppy in the garden quietly (apparently using a babble ball with him once in the garden is just the same as shouting and swearing nearly every day for 2.5 years, and mocking me for reporting them to agencies.

I emailed the council about the noise. Ive be3n very clearmabout all the recordings I have but the want a completed diary of the next month.

I contacted victim support on Friday following another incident

The police phoned me yesterday, apologised about the delay and advised that they did consider the situation one of harassment and that they would be allocating the case. My neighbours didnt watch the England game. Instead, clearly under the influence of something, they shouted and swore by my patiomdoors, played a site radio inside the house loudly for over 2 hours,whilst mowing and strimming the lawn which took,over 2.5 hours for,some reason (they always do it at the weekend despite not working)( my other neighbour mowed her similar sized lawn today, took her 15 minutes) Then the male started threatening to throw apples from my tree that had fallen into their garden ( not their garden, but where they have placed a series of fence panels on my land) back into my garden and considered stealing some of the apples to make a crumble. Later in the evening he could be heard talking loudly to,himself in the lounge with the window wide open.

Today he was shouting on the phone from indoors withnthemback door open swearing at 12.00 ("f" words). At about 2 as I played with my puppy henstarted quietly singing "what a wicked piece of filth" through the hedge a number of times, then made a racket kicking a football about befor3 blasting out a site radio for a few minutes. I phoned the police to report what he had been singing. It's just about recorded on the CCTV if you turn up the volume to max.

I should hear from Urwin Mitchell some time this week. I'm so worried that they won't help.

[Blinkin73]

So, its all so very disheartening

After the police phoning me and advising that the situation was classed as harassment and the case would be allocated, I had to report a further incident when the male next door began quietly singing at me through the hedge that divides the garden "what a wicked piece of filth" several times, then as I was on the phone to the police he began kicking a football loudly around the garden and shouting and laughing at me. Having waited patiently for the police to make contact with me to see the videos i have of the numerous times my neighbours have undertaken behaviour that can be classed as harassment, today I received a letter from them which appears to state that they are now closing the case. I don't understand how they can open a case and close it having never contacted me to discuss whats been happening or see the evidence that I have.

I was contacted by a paralegal from Urwin Mitchell, they then provided me with a 43 page terms and conditions form to read through and sign and then have asked for copies of everything that I've already passed to the legal insurance company. What was the point of sending the information to the claims company in the first place? I'm not confident of them accepting my claim. Re thr trepass, not only was a fence placed on my land, my neighbours kept coming on to my land to retrieve footballs they kept kicking into my garden, but I was assaulted and left with bruising on my arm, but apparently this is insignificant? I also have their bamboo growing right up aside my property now as they are encouraging it to grow to block out light but I'm more worried about the damage it could do to the foundations etc.

Theres been a incident of domestic abuse where my neighbours were arguing and swearing loudly. He was locked out the house and asserting that she had hit him. Their children were present When the police arrived he denied anything had happened and started shouting about me and that I should be given a caution for calling the police about them. I had it all recorded on CCTV but the police never contacted me to enquire.

The shouting at football that he usually does has diminished, he's only shouted once at a recent Arsenal game, but when an England game was playing they played loud music on a radio inside their property whilst he sat in the garden whilst she mowed and strimmed the lawn for over two hours. She then mowed the lawn again 5 days later which suggests that the pair of them were just making as much noise as possible when the England game was on out of spite.

She keeps parking really really close to my car for no reason.

I feel so exhausted and tearful today.

[MIKE770]

The company is policy expert, I'm dealing with Trinity Claims

I'm just going to go and find what is not covered and copy it here

Policy Expert I quested right earlier on when reading. - say no more. Trinity are arrogant obnoxious company any employees

[Blinkin73]

So, my home insurance doesnt cover the harassment of my neighbours which also doesnt fit the levels that the police require so it seems. More stuff has contued, ive now got bamboo 2nstoreys high by my patio doors blocking out all the sunlit, they been parking across my drive completley blocking entry. I got parking enforcement involved so that stopped. Shea been shouting in the street that my deiveway is fake, that im a twat and that she will block my cae in, ans films oe takea photosnof my car her hernhuaband shoits and swears and stamps his feet at dootball.matches wvery arsenal.and englans matxh ans his joinsnhim daugjter now 13 sricks her finger up at my.CCTV,. I.could go on.

Apparenrly it will cost £60000 for a fully contested hearing.

Ive paid £2000 for a no win no fee solicitor to review my evidence.then write a letter of claim requesting they contact him tonagree to certain indertakings and pay my legal fees thus far within 14 days.. i made him.very aware of my financialmsituation andnthatnid benhoping fornassistamce with the finances

They replied on the last day refusing to agree to any undertakings, refuting all the evidence despite of tresspass nuisance and harassment and threatened to counterclaim for harassment themselces. All the while continuing to shoit at football matches and take photos of my car and its.contents for some reason.

The solicitor suggestednininitiate proceedings. I explained ive saved £20000 and save another £1000 a month but that it will take years to save the reast.

I ask about the no win no.fee aid. He said thatninncases like mine it might be that the damages.dont.cover the costs and theyndefinitely dontncover the success fee which is 50-75% extra on top of their usualnfees.

I thougjt about remortgagingnbecause i know rhey are.bluffing re the counterclaim but though ive already had an agreement in principal for £40000 remortgage, ive lied and said the purpose is to redo my kitchen and bathroom because i know noone will provide a mortgage for legal fees.

I think I.can raise maybe another £15000 selling all the jewelry ive inherited overnthe years.

im feeling pretry low at lresent. I cant believe people can get away with this behaviour

on top of all this, though im likely to obtain an injunction and win damages the only asset they have is their house and Chatgpt says its unlikely thenCourts will make an order for sale in the circumstances. So even if I win im stuck living next to them as my house cant be worth much now with them as neighbours

[islandgirl]

Exactly. Just reading again and the issues are awful but that kind of money is ridiculous and you may lose. I am involved in a noisy/ASB neighbours case as a councillor. I have had to fight to get Env Health to act. Noise equipment has been put in neighbours house and an abatement notice served. If they break it and end up in court they will be fined. Get your councillor on the case!

[Blinkin73]

Exactly. Just reading again and the issues are awful but that kind of money is ridiculous and you may lose. I am involved in a noisy/ASB neighbours case as a councillor. I have had to fight to get Env Health to act. Noise equipment has been put in neighbours house and an abatement notice served. If they break it and end up in court they will be fined. Get your councillor on the case!

Thanks for replying, especially given my really poor typing (fat fingers, small phone). I can't see how I would lose really. She very good at lying but she has no evidence. Whereas I've got a huge chronology and over 2000 vated and timed videos to evidence what has bee happening. I've just got to find the money somehow.

The £60000 wouldn't cover enforcement either ie any actions needed if they break the injunction or to claw back any damages owed if I win.



I have three choices
1. Kill them and then myself and go mad in prison
2. Learn to live it. That won't work because they just keep finding other things to ruin my peace and quiet and enjoyment of anything
3. Risk everything I've worked hard for by taking them to Court

Ive looked into remortgaging and already got a decision in principal yesterday for a chunk of the money. With my savings and jewelry I think Ithink just about scrabble together enough. What scares me isn't the thought of them winning, because I can't see how they could, but that they delay and drag things out so much that I run out of money. I won't have much of a buffer in my budget to manage that sort of stuff. I have no idea how much someone with a made up counterclaim can postpone and increase costs.

[islandgirl]

Winning is never certain. Get the council to issue abatement notices and fit noise equipment in your home. Provided the correct notices are issued you are much more likely to win and the cost to you is... nothing. I sat on a noise case in court last week - the person was fined a considerable sum and will be back in court if they break the conditions of the notice again. Get hold of your councillor and put them to work to sort this. This is option 4, and by far the best one.

[Blinkin73]

Winning is never certain. Get the council to issue abatement notices and fit noise equipment in your home. Provided the correct notices are issued you are much more likely to win and the cost to you is... nothing. I sat on a noise case in court last week - the person was fined a considerable sum and will be back in court if they break the conditions of the notice again. Get hold of your councillor and put them to work to sort this. This is option 4, and by far the best one.

Nothing is certain. Noise is only part of it though, there's trespass and threats, defamation, intimidation, insults, growing spreading bamboo right next to my house that is 2 storeys high which is blocking all the light to my house and garden etc etc. I can't see any way forward but legal proceedings. I can't see how I could not end up getting an injunction

Also as you know, there a huge waiting list for recording equipment because noise problems are frequent

[Blinkin73]

Just to give anyone reading this an indication of their harassment counterclaim, they stated in their reply to my solicitor that they had numerous examples of me harassing them for which they have friends family and neighbours who will provide witness stwtements and gave two examples. First I am alleged to have informed her sister that I didn't want anyone living in their house when they first moved in, and second I am alleged to have banged on their walls and told a child to shut up when they were having a party.

I've got no idea how much they can increase costs by delaying things. I assume they will present as litigants in person as only one of the works regularly and for two days a week usually

I also have no idea how the Courts will view there being a 13 and 14 child in the home when I ask for an Order of sale, even though they've been drawn into the harassment and huisance and trespass by their parents.

If I don't take them to Court I am stuck living in this house until they move. I've already had to give up one job because I couldn't move as I had been planning. Also their children are just going to inflict this suffering on others. Half of my motivation for taking them to Court is to demonstrate that behaviour such as theirs only leads to pain for them

[islandgirl]

I have to say I think it extremely unlikely that any order for sale would be made. You most certainly could end up with no injunction. I also do not think the case is as clearcut as you think it is. Once again I would say do not borrow money, deal with it via the council. Noone can stop you doing as you plan but you are liable to find yourself in the same postion with a huge bill to pay.
You say there is a huge waiting list for equipment - how far have you got along the road with the council? Has your local councillor been involved?

[Blinkin73]

I have to say I think it extremely unlikely that any order for sale would be made. You most certainly could end up with no injunction. I also do not think the case is as clearcut as you think it is. Once again I would say do not borrow money, deal with it via the council. Noone can stop you doing as you plan but you are liable to find yourself in the same postion with a huge bill to pay.
You say there is a huge waiting list for equipment - how far have you got along the road with the council? Has your local councillor been involved?

I' don't mean to sound rude but im interested to hear why you think an order for sale is unlikely. It maybe that all I can do is obtain an injunction. But the threat I made to my neighbours of involving a solicitor and the fact that I had over 2000 recordings of their shenanigans and a chronology of over 200 pages and the letter they received from my solicitor has been more effective so far then any involvement from the police, who at one stage advised that there referring the situation to the council but.i never heard anything . That was after the police told me I was being harassed and then accidently shut my case and then didn't contact me for months and then gave my case to PCSOs who did then did nothing because my neighbours weren't answering their phones. That's after I was assaulted and they'd trespassed on my property, damaged my property, yelled at me in the street, threatened me, and removed fence panels to access my garden, yelled abuse at me and me having CCTV/phone evidence

From my experience neither the council nor the police want to deal with anti social behaviour. It's rife in society at present and there is little effective legislation and a dearth of services thans to all the years of cuts and under funding.. Unfortunately this isn't my first experience of harassment. It appears I've inadvertently moved into a pretty rough road in an otherwise lovely area. 10 years ago, when I first moved here my neighbour would play loud music from a professional audio system every Friday and Saturday. They jump the fence and use my garden as a short cut to the neighbour on the other side of me. Talking to them about this resulted in them hammering on my walls late at night, pouring alcohol onto my plants, shinning bright lights into my home and strobe light, firing fireworks into my garden, dog dirt on my front path and phoning the police and council did nothing despite me showing videos of what was happening. The situation was finally resolved when they accussed me of assault. I was called in for questioning by the police. Luckily I had recordings of the incident but only then was anymaction taken against my neighbours.

I spoke to my local Councillor in July this year. when my neighbour was blocking my drive partially and sometimes fully despite the road being virtually empty , or parking inches from my car when I decided to park across my dropped kerb to try and block me. Police advice was to just to park my car further down the road, parking enforcement will only get involved if my drive is fully blocked. I phoned one of my local councillors (the other didn't even have his correct telephone number on the website despite being a councillor for many many years). The councillor I spoke too about the whole situation advised that as he was involved in parking enforcement there was a conflict of interest and the other councillor was on holiday. He suggested I make sure I report all incidents to the police and make sure to get a crime reference number.

I'm interested to hear how you think a councillor will help with 2 storey high bamboo 1 metre from my back door blocking all the light to my home and garden and slowly travelling the length of my garden at a rate of about 1 metre a year given that bamboo doesn't come under the qnti social behaviour act 2023, or can help get to get them to remove their fence post and panels off my property or stop them deliberately letting their fence fall into disrepair or deliberately removing fence panels or smoking weed by my patio doors.

The noise is just part of the bigger picture which is harassment... deliberately behaving in a way to cause distress fear or humiliation.and its been going on for 4,5 years now

I'd be really happy to hear from someone experienced in these matters and get some impartial advice

[Blinkin73]

I have to say I think it extremely unlikely that any order for sale would be made. You most certainly could end up with no injunction. I also do not think the case is as clearcut as you think it is. Once again I would say do not borrow money, deal with it via the council. Noone can stop you doing as you plan but you are liable to find yourself in the same postion with a huge bill to pay.
You say there is a huge waiting list for equipment - how far have you got along the road with the council? Has your local councillor been involved?

I' don't mean to sound rude but im interested to hear why you think an order for sale is unlikely. It maybe that all I can do is obtain an injunction. But the threat I made to my neighbours of involving a solicitor and the fact that I had over 2000 recordings of their shenanigans and a chronology of over 200 pages and the letter they received from my solicitor has been more effective so far then any involvement from the police, who at one stage advised that there referring the situation to the council but.i never heard anything . That was after the police told me I was being harassed and then accidently shut my case and then didn't contact me for months and then gave my case to PCSOs who did then did nothing because my neighbours weren't answering their phones. That's after I was assaulted and they'd trespassed on my property, damaged my property, yelled at me in the street, threatened me, and removed fence panels to access my garden, yelled abuse at me and me having CCTV/phone evidence

From my experience neither the council nor the police want to deal with anti social behaviour. It's rife in society at present and there is little effective legislation and a dearth of services thans to all the years of cuts and under funding.. Unfortunately this isn't my first experience of harassment. It appears I've inadvertently moved into a pretty rough road in an otherwise lovely area. 10 years ago, when I first moved here my neighbour would play loud music from a professional audio system every Friday and Saturday. They jump the fence and use my garden as a short cut to the neighbour on the other side of me. Talking to them about this resulted in them hammering on my walls late at night, pouring alcohol onto my plants, shinning bright lights into my home and strobe light, firing fireworks into my garden, dog dirt on my front path and phoning the police and council did nothing despite me showing videos of what was happening. The situation was finally resolved when they accussed me of assault. I was called in for questioning by the police. Luckily I had recordings of the incident but only then was anymaction taken against my neighbours.

I spoke to my local Councillor in July this year. when my neighbour was blocking my drive partially and sometimes fully despite the road being virtually empty , or parking inches from my car when I decided to park across my dropped kerb to try and block me. Police advice was to just to park my car further down the road, parking enforcement will only get involved if my drive is fully blocked. I phoned one of my local councillors (the other didn't even have his correct telephone number on the website despite being a councillor for many many years). The councillor I spoke too about the whole situation advised that as he was involved in parking enforcement there was a conflict of interest and the other councillor was on holiday. He suggested I make sure I report all incidents to the police and make sure to get a crime reference number.

I'm interested to hear how you think a councillor will help with 2 storey high bamboo 1 metre from my back door blocking all the light to my home and garden and slowly travelling the length of my garden at a rate of about 1 metre a year given that bamboo doesn't come under the qnti social behaviour act 2023, or can help get to get them to remove their fence post and panels off my property or stop them deliberately letting their fence fall into disrepair or deliberately removing fence panels or smoking weed by my patio doors.

The noise is just part of the bigger picture which is harassment... deliberately behaving in a way to cause distress fear or humiliation.and its been going on for 4,5 years now

I'd be really happy to hear from someone experienced in these matters and get some impartial advice