Neighbours from hell/ legal insurance difficulties

[Blinkin73]

I'd like to know
1if its better to go for an injunction only first, and later bring a claim for damages when I've saved more. What are the pros and cons of this approach
2. What might damages look like possibly (high middle low)
3 As my neighbours don't work full time, one works 2-3 days a week as a carer and her partner works sporadically as a labourer is it reasonable to assume that they will be litigants in person if they engage
4 How badly can they drag proceedings out and increase costs given my overwhelming catalogue of evidence. How much of a financial buffer is wise
5. Given that they own their house out right, and won't have the money to pay damages, unless theyre paultry, is it reasonable to assume that an Order for Sale is likely to be made should I be awarded moderate damages or more.
6. What factors are taken into account when a judge considers awarding costs?
7. How much significance does my neighbours refusal to give undertakings, or stop their harassment (though reduced) have
8 can I write the chronology and witness statements to cut costs ( I'm accustomed to writing Court statements as part of my work). Would that reduce costs by much
9, can I represent myself in Court with support from solicitors for the admin side of things
10. How much money should I have for the enforcement side of things.
11. Is this the sort of stuff I should be paying my solicitor to advise on


There is so much that I don't know, and even more that I don't know I don't know. I'm not sure if my solicitor is more minded to make money for his firm or protect my interests.

[HariSeldon]

1. Shouting from inside the property.
2. Singing from inside property with backdoor open. Same as above N
3. Playing radio in the rear of the property with backdoor open so that it can be heard inside my house and at the end of the garden N
4. Playing radio right by boundary as close to my conservatory doors as possible H
5. Shouting on phone on threshold of back door with backdoor open so every word can be heard 90ft away at the end of my garden N
6. Shouting on phone by boundary and my conservatory doors. This happens most days N/H
7. Shouting and swearing on phone in garden. This happens nearly every day N
8. Shouting and screaming and banging of children inside house both upstairs in bedroom and in lounge and kitchen area
9. Playing football in the garden, several times a day, everyday by 11yr old and his father, often hitting fence panels or rubbish stored in the garden or the top/sides of a metal goal.
10. Tapping loudly on the fence ( occured twice)N
etc.

To be blunt, you need a reality check, you'll be laughed out of court with most of those complaints.

Your neighbours have the same rights as you to be able to live their lives as they wish as long as they're not acting unreasonably. For example, singing inside their own property during the day or shouting at footie on TV is not unreasonable. It might be considered unreasonable if all of those things were happening in the early hours (say between midnight and 6am) but by your own admission that's not the case.

Some of your other complaints might be valid but they're lost in a sea of flotsam and jetsam so no-one is going to take you seriously. If you want to make progress you need to whittle the complaints down to the serious issues that a reasonable person would find unacceptable (rather than just annoying to you.) E.g. "Having BBQ 5ft from conservatory door" in a terraced house is a laughable complaint that is not going to get a court on your side.

I don't expect silence but they are SO loud and a lot of noise could be mitigated by closing their door. There are times I can't hear someone talking to me 1 metre away from me because my neighbours are shouting 7ft away fro me. I can't sit and read a book, or relax whilst watching TV anywhere.

By the same token you could mitigate some of the noise by using decent headphones or earplugs.

Talk of spending tens of thousands of pounds on legal fees is absurd when you could spend say £200 on some Airpods; the active noise cancelling on modern headgear is fantastic.

I'd like to know
is it reasonable to assume that an Order for Sale is likely to be made should I be awarded moderate damages or more.

An Order For Sale in this case is not going to happen in a million years and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

Even if you were successful in gaining an injunction (and I'm not at all confident you would be based on your current approach) and were awarded damages, I suspect they would be minimal. To add insult to injury if both homeowners only work part-time then you may be looking at compensation of as little as £5 a week...

[echat11]

The best way to 'tackle' this is through the Council, present a 'credible' case. The strongest evidence, not 'playing football in the garden,
several times a day, everyday by 11yr old and his father'. The thing is a lot of 'fathers' do that, it might annoy you, but it is normal. Keep
escalating it through the Council. They can and do act.

[wales01man]

Have read through this and can only agree with others an order of sale is never going to happen ,as for suing if you won and compensation was awarded 5 quid a month seems likely thats if they paid although things may get worse with them.
We have had problems with Neighbours including noise threats and even had arson attack on cars Police and Council will only act with independent witnesses despite a long diary of evidence.

Money spent on legal action as others have said will be wasted as you say ASB does not seem to be acted upon. Its a case put up with it no one cares in authority as we have been told until someones gets hurt or worse ,your neighbours i expect are haveing a good laugh at your expense I wish i and others on here had an answer to end this

[islandgirl]

Agree with the above advice wholeheartedly. £5 a week will be what you will most likely get, if anything. No order for sale will be made. My advice remains - contact the council Environmental Health and work with them. If your councillors are as bad as you say why do people vote for the? Approach them again but also go direct to Environmental Health. I do know something about this as a councillor currently working with families plagued by ASB - not just noise but a catalogue of stuff. In my role as magistrate I saw a case brought by a council in court last week - a fine of a few pounds for each noise incident but hopefully will ensure the person makes less noise in future.

[echat11]

Random site - https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/.../question/Q153

[Blinkin73]

To be blunt, you need a reality check, you'll be laughed out of court with most of those complaints.

Your neighbours have the same rights as you to be able to live their lives as they wish as long as they're not acting unreasonably. For example, singing inside their own property during the day or shouting at footie on TV is not unreasonable. It might be considered unreasonable if all of those things were happening in the early hours (say between midnight and 6am) but by your own admission that's not the case.

Some of your other complaints might be valid but they're lost in a sea of flotsam and jetsam so no-one is going to take you seriously. If you want to make progress you need to whittle the complaints down to the serious issues that a reasonable person would find unacceptable (rather than just annoying to you.) E.g. "Having BBQ 5ft from conservatory door" in a terraced house is a laughable complaint that is not going to get a court on your side.



By the same token you could mitigate some of the noise by using decent headphones or earplugs.

Talk of spending tens of thousands of pounds on legal fees is absurd when you could spend say £200 on some Airpods; the active noise cancelling on modern headgear is fantastic.



An Order For Sale in this case is not going to happen in a million years and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

Even if you were successful in gaining an injunction (and I'm not at all confident you would be based on your current approach) and were awarded damages, I suspect they would be minimal. To add insult to injury if both homeowners only work part-time then you may be looking at compensation of as little as £5 a week...

I originally put a reply meant for someone else here

[Blinkin73]

[QUOTE=HariSeldon;n1711661]

To be blunt, you need a reality check, you'll be laughed out of court with most of those complaints.

Your neighbours have the same rights as you to be able to live their lives as they wish as long as they're not acting unreasonably. For example, singing inside their own property during the day or shouting at footie on TV is not unreasonable. It might be considered unreasonable if all of those things were happening in the early hours (say between midnight and 6am) but by your own admission that's not the case.

Some of your other complaints might be valid but they're lost in a sea of flotsam and jetsam so no-one is going to take you seriously. If you want to make progress you need to whittle the complaints down to the serious issues that a reasonable person would find unacceptable (rather than just annoying to you.) E.g. "Having BBQ 5ft from conservatory door" in a terraced house is a laughable complaint that is not going to get a court on your side.



By the same token you could mitigate some of the noise by using decent headphones or earplugs.

Talk of spending tens of thousands of pounds on legal fees is absurd when you could spend say £200 on some Airpods; the active noise cancelling on modern headgear is fantastic.



An Order For Sale in this case is not going to happen in a million years and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

Even if you were successful in gaining an injunction (and I'm not at all confident you would be based on your current approach) and were awarded damages, I suspect they would be minimal. To add insult to injury if both homeowners only work part-time then you may be looking at compensation of as little as £5 a

"As long as they are not acting unreasonably" is the key term. And people are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their home too. I don't expect silence. I do expect consideration.

I don't think I should have to hear someone shouting and swearing and stamping their feet throughout my home 2 storey home and across the other side of the street every time arsenal or England score. People passing in the street make comments about their noise.

I don't think I should be hearing their 14 year old shouting and swearing on his xbox through the walls in the evening/ early hours

Smoke weed in your home if you want but right by my backdoor?

It's fine to sing over the radio inside your home, but perhaps shut your door or go to a karaoke bar. If your going to have your back door open all day every day when you live in a terraced house perhaps have a little consideration for others and close your door if you are going to be noisy.

It's fine to listen to your radio, but perhaps shut your back door so everyone else doesn't have to listen to it or get headmphones.(I got two pairs of noise cancelling headphones BTW but it would be nice to sit in my garden and hear the birds sing in the evening

It's fine for kids to scream and have fun sometimes but perhaps not after midnight when they don't have a bed time in the school holidays

you say it's laughable that I complain about having a BBQ 5ft from my patio doors but the gardens are 70ft long and they were having BBQ,s towards the end of the garden like everyone else until I tried to speak to them about the DIY 7 days a week.

I understand what you are saying about some of my complaints being lost in the flotsam and jetsam though. Because they are so very very loud I can't escape them. I'd refer you back to my original message and atticus's reply.

[Blinkin73]

To be blunt, you need a reality check, you'll be laughed out of court with most of those complaints.

Your neighbours have the same rights as you to be able to live their lives as they wish as long as they're not acting unreasonably. For example, singing inside their own property during the day or shouting at footie on TV is not unreasonable. It might be considered unreasonable if all of those things were happening in the early hours (say between midnight and 6am) but by your own admission that's not the case.

Some of your other complaints might be valid but they're lost in a sea of flotsam and jetsam so no-one is going to take you seriously. If you want to make progress you need to whittle the complaints down to the serious issues that a reasonable person would find unacceptable (rather than just annoying to you.) E.g. "Having BBQ 5ft from conservatory door" in a terraced house is a laughable complaint that is not going to get a court on your side.



By the same token you could mitigate some of the noise by using decent headphones or earplugs.

Talk of spending tens of thousands of pounds on legal fees is absurd when you could spend say £200 on some Airpods; the active noise cancelling on modern headgear is fantastic.



An Order For Sale in this case is not going to happen in a million years and you are deluding yourself if you think it is.

Even if you were successful in gaining an injunction (and I'm not at all confident you would be based on your current approach) and were awarded damages, I suspect they would be minimal. To add insult to injury if both homeowners only work part-time then you may be looking at compensation of as little as £5 a week...

Hi
I agree that it would be usual for a father to play football with his children in the garden and previous neighbours have. What they haven't done is play in the garden all day/evening 20 mins in the garden 20 mind off until its dark shouting all the while, and the 20 minutes off is spent screaming and shouting indoors with the back door and windows opebn. Neighbours dont play football in the garden when they've deliberately let there fence fall down and then trespass numerous times to retrieve their balls, never once knocking on my door to ask forcthem back and assault the me when they are told to get out of the garden.

This is not just about playing football in the garden.

It's about trespassing on my property, assaulting me, blocking my drive way, calling me derogatory names, threatening me, and then making as much noise as possible in the guise of "kids just playing" and "ordinary everyday stuff. For example my other neighbour in her 60s can mow her lawn in 15 minutes. My nightmare neighbours, only ever mow their lawn if I happen to be in the garden and it takes them over two hours.

[Blinkin73]

I think people forgot the reason I started this topic. I suggest you read from the beginning. My insurance company wouldn't accept that this was a nuisance case, they (and later the police) felt it was a harassment case which my insurance policy doesn't cover. My reason for listing all the different behaviours I was experiencing from my neighbours was to try and give a sense of what I was experiencing as many of the behaviours fell into the nuisance category, but some in the harassment category, and I was trying to make my situation fit nuisance so that I could get insurance cover.

Having spoken now with three different solicitors over the past 2 years (1 passed away sadly) they all have advised that I have a good case for harassment, as did Atticus ( a 4th solicitor) the main points being that they trespassed on my land numerous times, erected fence panels and posts on my land, removed fence panels, assaulted me, hammered on walls, tapped on fences, shouted abuse and derogatory statements at me, and deliberately made a load of noise to the point I couldn't sit in my garden or conservatory anymore. To add to that of recent they've been parking across my driveway, parking inches from my car, hit my car, threatened me, grown 2 storey high bamboo by my house covering it in shade, made defamatory statements about me in the community and to the police and continued to trespass on my property.

My first degree is a law degree. I'm not completely stupid. Every solicitor I've spoken to has advised that deliberate nuisance is harassment.

Are you all saying that every solicitor I've spoken to, including one whose seen some of the videos of noise, is basically just lying to me to get me to pay thousands for needless advice and undertake meritless Court proceedings?

Noise is only part of the issue

[HariSeldon]

"As long as they are not acting unreasonably" is the key term. And people are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of their home too. I don't expect silence. I do expect consideration.

I don't think I should have to hear someone shouting and swearing and stamping their feet throughout my home 2 storey home and across the other side of the street every time arsenal or England score. People passing in the street make comments about their noise.

It is not "acting unreasonably" for your neighbour to sing along to the radio in their own home.

You are conflating inconsiderate behaviour with harassment and as others have said you are not going to get the result you expect if you carry on complaining about every little thing that annoys you such as neighbours singing in their own home during the day. You and your neighbours live in a terrace, you are going to be able to hear each other at times, that's just the way it is. You can't successfully sue someone because they prefer to play football with their kids instead of listening to bird song in an evening.

You need to take a step back, take a deep breath and focus on demonstrably unacceptable behaviour rather than selfish behaviour. Continue with your current approach of complaining about everything and you will be sorely disappointed and frustrated if you go to court as well as being much poorer.

[Blinkin73]

I'm advised that I have sufficient evidence to obtain and injunction. Damages would be payable in respect of the trespasses (if that's a word), the assault, defamation, and nuisance as well as the diminuation in value of my propert which will be in the 10s of thousands. I think we all agree that not many people want to live next to neighbours who act like mine. Costs may or may not be awarded too. The fact that my neighbours refused to give undertakings not to commit further nuisance, trespass or harassment reflects badly upon them in the eyes of the law. Potentially damages and costs combined would be over £100,000.00. As they would have no other way to pay the money back a Charging Order would be placed upon their only asset, their house, increasing the value owed by 8%
each year. This can be gained easily. Following the Charging Order an Order for Sale can be requested, and that's when the Courts look at a lot of competing interests. It's really not as clear cut as many of you think it is. It won't be £5 a week that's for sure.

[HariSeldon]

Are you all saying that every solicitor I've spoken to, including one whose seen some of the videos of noise, is basically just lying to me to get me to pay thousands for needless advice and undertake meritless Court proceedings?

Yes if those solicitors have convinced you that a Court is likely to make an Order For Sale forcing your neighbours to sell up and move on - that is just never going to happen.

Based on what you have said so far I suspect the most that will happen if you are successful in court is that the neighbour is told to change their behaviour and pay you £5 or £10 a week for a few years.

[Blinkin73]

It is not "acting unreasonably" for your neighbour to sing along to the radio in their own home.

You are conflating inconsiderate behaviour with harassment and as others have said you are not going to get the result you expect if you carry on complaining about every little thing that annoys you such as neighbours singing in their own home during the day. You and your neighbours live in a terrace, you are going to be able to hear each other at times, that's just the way it is. You can't successfully sue someone because they prefer to play football with their kids instead of listening to bird song in an evening.

You need to take a step back, take a deep breath and focus on demonstrably unacceptable behaviour rather than selfish behaviour. Continue with your current approach of complaining about everything and you will be sorely disappointed and frustrated if you go to court as well as being much poorer.

I refer you to part of a post I made earlier

"I think people forgot the reason I started this topic. I suggest you read from the beginning. My insurance company wouldn't accept that this was a nuisance case, they (and later the police) felt it was a harassment case which my insurance policy doesn't cover. My reason for listing all the different behaviours I was experiencing from my neighbours was to try and give a sense of what I was experiencing as many of the behaviours fell into the nuisance category, but some in the harassment category, and I was trying to make my situation fit nuisance so that I could get insurance cover."

[HariSeldon]

the diminuation in value of my propert which will be in the 10s of thousands. I think we all agree that not many people want to live next to neighbours who act like mine. Costs may or may not be awarded too. ... damages and costs combined would be over £100,000.00. ... an Order for Sale can be requested,

If you take your neighbours to court and you win and they agree to change their behaviour then why would the value of your property be diminished?

You seem to have jumped on to a whole load of worst-case scenarios to end up with £100,000 and ultimately an Order for Sale - as said before you are deluding yourself if you think that is a remotely likely outcome.