• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

**DISCONTINUED** County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pipsy
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    PLEASE ACCEPT THIS LETTER ONLY AS A LETTER OF COMPLAINT. IT DOES NOT FORM PART OF MY DEFENCE AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS SUCH

    Dear Amanda,
    Could I please have a confirmation copy of Receipt please for my records
    Regarding Claim Form xxxxx, I am writing to the court to complain that Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), the Claimant in the above case, has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).
    The Claim form was issued on 10th October 2017, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was served 11th October 2017(7 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 24thOctober 2017. This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

    particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was served 11th October 2017(7 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 24thOctober 2017. This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).
    The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 31st October, as the post mark shows , but in the envelope was a letter dated, 11th October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.
    The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.
    I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.
    My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.
    Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 8th November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 24th October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.
    This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.
    I am writing to you because I understand that the issue with CEL backdating their Particulars of Claim, and failing to file the Certificate of Service, has become extremely common. It appears that they have issued batch claims on or around 11th October with which they cannot cope. Their template Particulars of Claim, identical in each case, are an abuse of process, and all of them appear to be dated 11 October when they are in fact being posted much later (and in many cases out of time). I wonder what the court is going to do about CEL's abuse of the system? All court users, both professional and lay, are expected to abide by the Civil Procedure this is why they exist, to put all parties on an equal footing. CEL are ignoring the rules which is prejudicing what appears to be a large number of lay defendants
    Yours Faithfully

    Hi everyone can you please check to see if ive got all my dates right ,,, mental block Thanks Pipsy
    Last edited by Pipsy; 13th November 2017, 21:00:PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Afternoon folks!

    I am sending my letter of complaint to the CCBC Helpdesk for the attention of Amanda Beck on bulkcentre.helpdesk@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk(as per post #93) and wanted to share the draft, in case it is able to help anyone else in a similar position!!

    PLEASE ACCEPT THIS LETTER ONLY AS A LETTER OF COMPLAINT. IT DOES NOT FORM PART OF MY DEFENCE AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS SUCH.

    Dear Amanda,

    Regarding Claim Form XXXXXXXX, I am writing to the court following our phone conversation on Friday to complain that Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), the Claimant in the above case, has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

    The Claim form was issued on 2nd October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was therefore served on 7 October (5 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 23 October (since 21/22 were a Saturday/Sunday). This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

    The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 24 October, and so I assume (as I did not keep the envelope that they were posted in) that they were posted on 23 October. However they were dated, and accompanied by a letter dated, 11 October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.

    The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 12 days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

    I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.

    My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.

    Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 7th November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 24th October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.

    This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.


    I am writing to you because I understand that the issue with CEL backdating their Particulars of Claim, and failing to file the Certificate of Service, has become extremely common. It appears that they have issued batch claims on or around 10 October with which they cannot cope. Their template Particulars of Claim, identical in each case, are an abuse of process, and all of them appear to be dated 11 October when they are in fact being posted much later (and in many cases out of time). I wonder what the court is going to do about CEL's abuse of the system? All court users, both professional and lay, are expected to abide by the Civil Procedure Rules: this is why they exist, to put all parties on an equal footing. CEL are ignoring the rules which is prejudicing what appears to be a large number of lay defendants

    Yours Faithfully
    The email address that Amanda gave me will send back the following bounceback;

    This email account is no longer in use and is unmonitored. Your message has not been forwarded.

    But folk shouldn't be alarmed by this!

    Having requested confirmation of receipt from Amanda, she responded within 20 mins to confirm she had received and forwarded the message and its contents on!

    Get everyone to CC themselves and request confirmation of receipt and go from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    [MENTION=61850]OliverJames[/MENTION]

    http://www.civillitigationbrief.com/...lways-serious/

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
    Yes, it will be transferred your local court if it goes the distance.
    I wonder if they will be heading down from Liverpool to the Home Counties for this...hummmm

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Yes, it will be transferred your local court if it goes the distance.

    I go checking out the reports
    Digging up the dirt
    You get to meet all sorts
    In this line of work

    Treachery and treason
    There's always an excuse for it
    And when I find the reason

    I still can't get used to it

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    @charitynjw @ostell @innocentrabbit @Pipsy

    ****Update from the flight deck****

    I just spoke to the court....and it transpires the agent i spoke to on Monday was still on holiday in Ibiza, and gave me COMPLETELY incorrect information...Thanks Jack!

    The N215 has NOT been filed by CEL in my case (no surprise there..) but in my email to them i said that it was because that's what i was told by the court!!!!!!!! VERY frustrating!

    Anyway....I went off on one with my newly discovered legal knowledge (thank you charitynjw & ostell...) at which point the agent quickly transferred me to his manager.

    I immediately asked if she was legally trained, but no....no one there is legally trained as it is just an online system and NO ONE assesses the case files. The defence statement is sent to the claimant and they decide if they want to proceed, and if they do it can go to a local court (i believe local to me?).

    I took her through the timeline that i have experienced and she asked me to stop and ended up actually finishing the story for me!! It turns out that CEL are in their bad books for not following practices and are on the receiving end of a bollo*king from them. She has requested that i email her over my additional evidence which will a) be kept on file ready for the next stage it there even is one, and b) she wants to forward it on to their "Customer Insight Team" who are currently dealing with the CEL situation.

    She game be an email address to use to send it.

    There are 2 options....I can either send a bulk load of these, or we can all send out own individual statements for her attention and she will forward them on....I'm easy with either!

    Sounds like these naughty boys could be coming to a very sticky patch in the road...
    Last edited by OliverJames; 10th November 2017, 09:57:AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Originally posted by ostell View Post
    They shouldn't have filed the certificate of service before actually sending the docs, especially when the document itself is 5 days after the cert of service!

    It's not muddying the water, it shows how underhand and sneaky they are.
    Ok fantastic...I will leave it in then

    & more importantly, they've deceived the court.
    Naughty boys!


    Best ensure this is brought to light as well haha!!

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    I agree with [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION].

    & more importantly, they've deceived the court.
    Naughty boys!

    Leave a comment:


  • ostell
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    They shouldn't have filed the certificate of service before actually sending the docs, especially when the document itself is 5 days after the cert of service!

    It's not muddying the water, it shows how underhand and sneaky they are.

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    "I would direct you to the fact that your signed Certificate of Service is supported by a Statement of Truth, & therefore to the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence"....?

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part32#32.14

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
    Cert of service to be filed at court within 14 days of service of PoC.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...pd_part07e#6.1
    So actually them filing their certificate of service on 6th October isn't an issue haha!

    OK, will reword to just focus on the fact it states 11th but only arrived on the 24th

    Dont want to muddy the water for no reason

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Court claim issued 2/10/2017.
    PoC sent separately....should be within 14 days
    Cert of service to be filed at court within 14 days of service of PoC.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...pd_part07e#6.1

    Just to give an idea of timeline.
    Your missive seems to be fine, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
    Better & better....contemporaneous evidence.
    It is indeed!!!

    I would welcome your thoughts on the wording of this for my email to CEL;

    On October 2nd 2017 I received a County Court Claim from yourselves which I have acknowledged, and intend to defend in full.
    As per Civil Procedure Rules you are expected to serve Particulars of Claim (PoC) within 14 days of issuing your claim form.

    The court has advised me that you filed your N215 (Certificate of Service) on the 6th October which confirms to the court that you had already sent your Particulars of Claim. CRP 7.5 clearly states that you are required to send this via First class post, which means this would have arrived on the 8th or 9th of October at the latest. Based on this, I am seeking clarity as to why, a) the date on this document is the 11th October, seeing as the document would have only been drafted and sent on or before the 6th October, and b) why the documents in fact arrived on 24th October 2017?

    For avoidance of doubt, the Money Claims Online user guide you will have read that “The certificate of service (N215) confirms to the court that you have sent the documents to the defendant”.

    Can you please provide me with reasons for the discrepancies in the dates, and also proof of postage for both the N215 and Particulars of Service.

    Along with this, you sent all communications to an incorrect address having received a letter from me sent on the 6th clearly stating the correct address.

    You chose to ignore this request, as well as showing a blatant disregard for the IPC code of practice for carrying out strict due diligence.

    For avoidance of doubt, IPC code of practice (Page 33, final paragraph) clearly states that;
    Before issuing court proceedings on any unpaid parking charge which is over 12 months old, the operator must first perform a suitable check of the defendant’s last known address.

    You have failed to comply with this and as such I recommend you cease and desist with immediate effect.

    I look forward to hearing back from you in due course.

    Yours sincerely

    Leave a comment:


  • charitynjw
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Better & better....contemporaneous evidence.

    Personally I wouldn't contact CEL....why give them a heads-up & allow them further opportunity to be.....creative?

    But some of that letter could be massaged into your email. (Not the WS...that should just be a factual account.)

    Think of it this way...it'll be a nice surprise for them on the big day!

    Leave a comment:


  • OliverJames
    replied
    Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

    Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
    Do you have still have the WhatsApp evidence?
    Yes I do

    Leave a comment:

View our Terms and Conditions

LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
Working...
X