**DISCONTINUED** County Court Business Centre Letter Received

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@charitynjw @ostell

This unravelled the more I dig into it and it is incredibly frustrating!

I called the court this afternoon to confirm that the N215 (certificate of service) was filed by CEL and if so, when it was done. The reason I had to leave it so long is because of the delays with the court processing their backlog....anyway...

It transpires that they filed their N215 on the 6th October, but the particulars of claim didn't arrive to the (as we already know) incorrect address until the 24th October! I will have a witness statement to testify that this was the case. Looking at the MCOL user guide (https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFF...user-guide.pdf) the filing of the N215 is proof to the court that they have posted their PoC to the defendant!

I can't believe these charlatans try and get away with all this....grrrrr

Is it worth writing to the court to complain about them blatantly taking the proverbial?

OJB

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I think that I would email the court & attach a witness statement (with a signed statement of truth) testifying to the service date of the detailed PoC.

An N215 has to be supported by a statement of truth....if they are found to be telling porkies to the court, woe betide them!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I think that I would email the court & attach a witness statement (with a signed statement of truth) testifying to the service date of the detailed PoC.

An N215 has to be supported by a statement of truth....if they are found to be telling porkies to the court, woe betide them!

I have put together a draft witness statement which my witness has filled in, but if you don't mind having a quick check and let me know if they are missing anything that could be telling in this case that would be wonderful!!!

My feeling is that porkies could be EXACTLY what's being told here! hummmm

Lets see...letter attached for your shredding

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Splendid.

It is easily enough to cast doubt on any claim that the detailed PoCs were sent as per the date stated on the cert of service.

With a bit of luck the judge will demand proof of posting from them if it goes the distance.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Splendid.

It is easily enough to cast doubt on any claim that the detailed PoCs were sent as per the date stated on the cert of service.

With a bit of luck the judge will demand proof of posting from them if it goes the distance.

Ok great! Thank you for checking.

Is it ok if my sister emails them direct, or should it come from me? Subject line will obviously have the case details regardless of who it comes from...

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Ok great! Thank you for checking.

Is it ok if my sister emails them direct, or should it come from me? Subject line will obviously have the case details regardless of who it comes from...

Doesn't matter all that much.
As long as it has the case details in the subject box it should be fine.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Doesn't matter all that much.
As long as it has the case details in the subject box it should be fine.

And as for contacting CEL with regards their backhanded tactics...do you think an email to them is worthwhile, asking them to justify why they decided to backdate their comms?

There is a letter template on MSE which covered some of the elements, but is very much geared towards people who have yet to file their defence;

3rd November 2017

Dear Sir/Madam


Regarding Claim Form XXXXXXXX, I am writing to complain that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st November 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 2nd November 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. These dates mean that my defence is therefore not sue until 16th November 2017 (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.

I believe that the court should either disallow the further Particulars of Claim as no R3.9 application has been made by Civil Enforcement Limited or I should be given the opportunity to amend my defence as they were late serving the Particulars of Claim and I mistakenly thought I was running out of time to file it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Yours Faithfully

Thoughts on this will be extremely valuable to me and probably a large number of others in my situation haha (loads coming out of the woodwork!!!)

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Do you have still have the WhatsApp evidence?

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Do you have still have the WhatsApp evidence?

Yes I do

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Better & better....contemporaneous evidence.

Personally I wouldn't contact CEL....why give them a heads-up & allow them further opportunity to be.....creative?

But some of that letter could be massaged into your email. (Not the WS...that should just be a factual account.)

Think of it this way...it'll be a nice surprise for them on the big day!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Better & better....contemporaneous evidence.

It is indeed!!!

I would welcome your thoughts on the wording of this for my email to CEL;

On October 2^nd 2017 I received a County Court Claim from yourselves which I have acknowledged, and intend to defend in full.
As per Civil Procedure Rules you are expected to serve Particulars of Claim (PoC) within 14 days of issuing your claim form.

The court has advised me that you filed your N215 (Certificate of Service) on the 6^th October which confirms to the court that you had already sent your Particulars of Claim. CRP 7.5 clearly states that you are required to send this via First class post, which means this would have arrived on the 8^th or 9^th of October at the latest. Based on this, I am seeking clarity as to why, a) the date on this document is the 11^th October, seeing as the document would have only been drafted and sent on or before the 6^th October, and b) why the documents in fact arrived on 24^th October 2017?

For avoidance of doubt, the Money Claims Online user guide you will have read that “The certificate of service (N215) confirms to the court that you have sent the documents to the defendant”.

Can you please provide me with reasons for the discrepancies in the dates, and also proof of postage for both the N215 and Particulars of Service.

Along with this, you sent all communications to an incorrect address having received a letter from me sent on the 6^th clearly stating the correct address.

You chose to ignore this request, as well as showing a blatant disregard for the IPC code of practice for carrying out strict due diligence.

For avoidance of doubt, IPC code of practice (Page 33, final paragraph) clearly states that;
Before issuing court proceedings on any unpaid parking charge which is over 12 months old, the operator must first perform a suitable check of the defendant’s last known address.

You have failed to comply with this and as such I recommend you cease and desist with immediate effect.

I look forward to hearing back from you in due course.

Yours sincerely

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Court claim issued 2/10/2017.
PoC sent separately....should be within 14 days
Cert of service to be filed at court within 14 days of service of PoC.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...pd_part07e#6.1

Just to give an idea of timeline.
Your missive seems to be fine, though.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Cert of service to be filed at court within 14 days of service of PoC.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...pd_part07e#6.1

So actually them filing their certificate of service on 6th October isn't an issue haha!

OK, will reword to just focus on the fact it states 11th but only arrived on the 24th

Dont want to muddy the water for no reason

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

"I would direct you to the fact that your signed Certificate of Service is supported by a Statement of Truth, & therefore to the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence"....?

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part32#32.14

[ostell]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

They shouldn't have filed the certificate of service before actually sending the docs, especially when the document itself is 5 days after the cert of service!

It's not muddying the water, it shows how underhand and sneaky they are.