**DISCONTINUED** County Court Business Centre Letter Received

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Do you have still have the WhatsApp evidence?

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Doesn't matter all that much.
As long as it has the case details in the subject box it should be fine.

And as for contacting CEL with regards their backhanded tactics...do you think an email to them is worthwhile, asking them to justify why they decided to backdate their comms?

There is a letter template on MSE which covered some of the elements, but is very much geared towards people who have yet to file their defence;

3rd November 2017

Dear Sir/Madam


Regarding Claim Form XXXXXXXX, I am writing to complain that the Claimant has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 11th October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form.

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 1st November 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 2nd November 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. These dates mean that my defence is therefore not sue until 16th November 2017 (Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 21 days, together with the covering letter. This is clearly demonstrated by the post mark on the envelope they arrived in, which shows the date of posting as 1st Nov, a copy of which I have provided as evidence.
The Civil Procedure Rules are quite clear – under Rule 3.8 the court should apply the sanctions unless the Claimant has applied for relief under 3.9.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the court file.

I believe that the court should either disallow the further Particulars of Claim as no R3.9 application has been made by Civil Enforcement Limited or I should be given the opportunity to amend my defence as they were late serving the Particulars of Claim and I mistakenly thought I was running out of time to file it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Yours Faithfully

Thoughts on this will be extremely valuable to me and probably a large number of others in my situation haha (loads coming out of the woodwork!!!)

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Ok great! Thank you for checking.

Is it ok if my sister emails them direct, or should it come from me? Subject line will obviously have the case details regardless of who it comes from...

Doesn't matter all that much.
As long as it has the case details in the subject box it should be fine.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Splendid.

It is easily enough to cast doubt on any claim that the detailed PoCs were sent as per the date stated on the cert of service.

With a bit of luck the judge will demand proof of posting from them if it goes the distance.

Ok great! Thank you for checking.

Is it ok if my sister emails them direct, or should it come from me? Subject line will obviously have the case details regardless of who it comes from...

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Splendid.

It is easily enough to cast doubt on any claim that the detailed PoCs were sent as per the date stated on the cert of service.

With a bit of luck the judge will demand proof of posting from them if it goes the distance.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I think that I would email the court & attach a witness statement (with a signed statement of truth) testifying to the service date of the detailed PoC.

An N215 has to be supported by a statement of truth....if they are found to be telling porkies to the court, woe betide them!

I have put together a draft witness statement which my witness has filled in, but if you don't mind having a quick check and let me know if they are missing anything that could be telling in this case that would be wonderful!!!

My feeling is that porkies could be EXACTLY what's being told here! hummmm

Lets see...letter attached for your shredding

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I think that I would email the court & attach a witness statement (with a signed statement of truth) testifying to the service date of the detailed PoC.

An N215 has to be supported by a statement of truth....if they are found to be telling porkies to the court, woe betide them!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@charitynjw @ostell

This unravelled the more I dig into it and it is incredibly frustrating!

I called the court this afternoon to confirm that the N215 (certificate of service) was filed by CEL and if so, when it was done. The reason I had to leave it so long is because of the delays with the court processing their backlog....anyway...

It transpires that they filed their N215 on the 6th October, but the particulars of claim didn't arrive to the (as we already know) incorrect address until the 24th October! I will have a witness statement to testify that this was the case. Looking at the MCOL user guide (https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFF...user-guide.pdf) the filing of the N215 is proof to the court that they have posted their PoC to the defendant!

I can't believe these charlatans try and get away with all this....grrrrr

Is it worth writing to the court to complain about them blatantly taking the proverbial?

OJB

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] quick one for you....

I have been advised to contact CEL now to explain about the backdating of the PoC and also contact the court to complain about the fact that this took place.

As I mentioned in previous posts, my sister opened the letter and didn't keep the envelope the PoC arrived in so could unravel very quickly. Is this something you would recommend?

In the same letter requesting explanation about the backdating I was thinking I could drop in a line about the IPC code of practice and their distinct lack of due diligence?

Very loose wording, but something like this;

On October 2^nd 2017 I received a County Court Claim from yourselves which I have acknowledged, and intend to defend in full.

As per Civil Procedure Rules you are expected to serve Particulars of Claim within 14 days of issuing your claim form.
Please can you send me an explanation as to why your particulars of claim were dated 11^th October 2017, but only arrived to the address, which was incorrect, even though you received a letter from me on the 8^th October with the correct address, on the 24^th October?

IPC code of practice (Page 33, final paragraph) clearly states that;
Before issuing court proceedings on any unpaid parking charge which is over 12 months old, the operator must first perform a suitable check of the defendant’s last known address.

You have failed to comply with this and as such I recommend you cease and desist with immediate effect.

What do you think about sending a letter in the first place, and if so, the content (not necessarily the words used)?

Thank you!

OJB

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@OliverJB

Prezzie for you!

The IPC Code of Practice is a somewhat laughable document, having been amended 6 times in their short tenure as a trade assn, each successive version watered down in favour of their members. (Well, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, do you!)

But I found this, buried at the bottom of the CoP.

Bottom of page 33
https://theipc.info/uploads/-imXk-gE...une%202017.pdf

Listen!...is that the sound of IPC biros hastily scratching a 7th amendment? (Gor blimey, how did we miss that one & leave it in?)

GOLD......absolute gold!! 🤣🤣🤣

This will negate a lot of their most recent claims....I hope!!!!

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@OliverJB

Prezzie for you!

The IPC Code of Practice is a somewhat laughable document, having been amended 6 times in their short tenure as a trade assn, each successive version watered down in favour of their members. (Well, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, do you!)

But I found this, buried at the bottom of the CoP.

Before issuing court proceedings on any unpaid parking charge which is over 12 monthsold, the operator must first perform a suitable check of the defendant’s last known address.

Bottom of page 33
https://theipc.info/uploads/-imXk-gE...une%202017.pdf

Listen!...is that the sound of IPC biros hastily scratching a 7th amendment? ("Gor blimey, how did we miss that one & leave it in?")

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Strictly speaking, CPR 31 is relevant up until it is allocated to SC.
So what I sometimes do is begin with a CPR 31 request, & come time for allocation, put in a reminder request for the same, but omit all references to CPR 31 on this one.
The Claimant has an ongoing duty to disclose, whether the disclosure supports or is detrimental to their case.
So now you've asked twice...once under CPR 31, once as a straight-forward non CPR request.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I guess your CPR 31 was sent with your current address on it?

Thanks charitynjw

Yes, every communication I've sent to date have included my current (and only) address!!

On a this note....I've just received some conflicting information regarding CRP 31 on another forum....

There is no disclosure in SCC, so you dont ref rule 31 as that doesnt apply

What's your take on this?

OJB

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

The court now knows your current address & the Claimant should exercise due dil. Wouldn't hurt to drop them a line to make sure, though. I guess your CPR 31 was sent with your current address on it?

Deemed delivery for 1st class post is 2 working days.

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

So it's D-day and still no disclosure from CEL (zero surprise!)

When you acknowledged, what address did you give for service of docs?

I used my current address. Would a copy of my acknowledgement be sent across to CEL then? They have had plenty of opportunity to use the correct address, but have chosen not to on every occasion!

Q2

Now than I am confident that the disclosure will not be arriving today, I wanted to put in some stronger wording around this into my defence, and would welcome some of your magical legalease;

The Defendant wrote to the Claimant on 27^th October requesting full disclosure of their documents as per their CPR 31 obligations. The Claimant was also offered an extension of 28 days as per CPR 15.5(1). This request was sent via First Class mail and would have been received next working day. The Claimant has ignored this request on all counts giving the Defendant none of the evidence to assess their defence position.

Obviously happy to amend anything and everything if needed

Thank you again

OJB