DISCONTINUED 1st Credit (Finance) Limited v martinr67

**nemesis45** · 22nd January 2018, 11:47:AM

Good morning, welcome to LB,

This credit card but in my opinion if you can prove the date of the last payment unequivocally then you can use the SB defence.

Which Solicitors is 1st using? What is the date of issue on the claim form

You need to send 1st Credit a request for a copy of the credit card agreement (CCA request) There is a template in the green box at the top of the " court claim forum under " First Steps". You have to send a £! postal order with the request ( mark is for statutory fee only) send it signed for post.

Then in the same place you will find a template for a CPR31.14 request which goes to the solicitors requesting the documents specifically mention the particulars of claim. i.e, Notice of Assignment, Default Notice, and the contract. When you send this mention that you have sent the CCA request to 1st.
There is no fee for this request. Use signed for post.

I see the default date is 07/03/2012 1st Crud will claim that the default date was the start of the relevant 6 year period so the alleged debt would not be SB until March this year.

nem

**warwick65** · 22nd January 2018, 21:40:PM

I doubt very much if the SB defence would have legs and relying on it as your only defence would be rather irresponsible IMO. As a claim has been issued the statute barred clock has now stopped so don't think if you can drag it out it will become SB - I know some people think that

There is no green box anymore as the forum has changed but here is a link to the CCA request
http://legalbeagles.info/library/gui...etter-example/

Here is a link for the CPR 31.14 request
http://legalbeagles.info/library/gui...-of-documents/

I would also ask for the Deed of assignment - it putsthem on notice you will be wanting to see it.

Finally it would be of great help to send a SAR to the original creditor as this may bring out details that 1st credit may not have

Diana M
Joanna C

Any thoughts?

**Martinr67** · 23rd January 2018, 12:16:PM

Thanks for getting back to me folks. It is appreciated.

The solicitors are Judge And Priestley LLP in Bromley. The claim form date of issue is 16th Jan 2018.

Interestingly I have been advised that the default date (07/03.2012) cannot be used as a start of the SB period. I was advised that SB started at one of these events:
1) Six years from date of last payment. The last record I have of payment by myself was 30th August 2011 from our bank account. We moved to NL the following day and have only recently returned to the UK.
2) More than six years with no contact from myself to the creditor. Last contact was sometime in 2009.

I am a bit confused here. Not been in this situation before.

So, do I understand correctly that I have to action the following in this order:

1) Send 1st Credit a request for the CCA with a postal order for £1 by recorded delivery and await their reply.
2) Send J & P LLP a completed CRP31.14 requesting the particulars of claim. i.e, Notice of Assignment, Default Notice, and the contract by recorded delivery.

Do I have to send anything else to the court as I have already informed them in my AOS that I intend to fully defend all of the claim?

Warwick65, you mentioned sending an SAR to the original creditor. I shall 'Google' this, but what does this mean please?

**Martinr67** · 23rd January 2018, 13:14:PM

All,

I have a couple of questions referring to the Particulars of Claim (pasted below) that I need some advice with - I am an engineer and legalese just confuses me!

Particulars of Claim:
"The Claimant is the assignee of a Lloyds Bank plc debt in the sum of £4,172.58 assigned on 21/11/14. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant. The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about 23/08/2001 under reference <xxxx>. The Defendant used the credit facilities. On 07/03/2012 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £4,172.58. The Claimant and its predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.
AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
1. The sum of £4,172.58
2. Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from 8/12/14 to 15/1/18 £1,037.09, and thereafter at a daily rate of £0.91 until judgement or sooner payment."

The CPR31.14 template states the following: (I have asked some further questions after the points in red).

To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence onxx/xx/xxxx. <- How do I define this date please?

NB: ONLY LIST HERE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM ON THE FRONT OF THE CLAIM FORM - eg. IF THEY DON'T MENTION ' DEFAULT NOTICE' YOU CANNOT ASK FOR IT UNDER CPR 31.14, IF THEY MENTION CONTRACT rather than AGREEMENT - ask for the CONTRACT...IF IN DOUBT TYPE OUT THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM AND ASK ON THE FORUM.( and remove this paragraph too!!!!)
for EXAMPLE
1. Agreement / Contract <- I see no mention of an agreement or contract in the Particulars of Claim
2. Default Notice
3. Assignment
4. Formal Demand <- As above, I see no reference to this?

Is the Agreement defined as the 'reference' in the PoC?

Thanks in advance,
Martinr67

**Kati** · 23rd January 2018, 13:25:PM

Originally posted by Martinr67 View Post

Particulars of Claim:
"The Claimant is the assignee of a Lloyds Bank plc debt in the sum of £4,172.58 assigned on 21/11/14. Statutory notices of assignment were sent to the defendant. The debt is a Credit Card account first opened by the original creditor on or about 23/08/2001 under reference <xxxx>. The Defendant used the credit facilities. On 07/03/2012 the account defaulted with an outstanding balance of £4,172.58. The Claimant and its predecessors in title demanded repayment of the sum due. In breach of contract the Defendant failed to repay the sums due.
AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
1. The sum of £4,172.58
2. Statutory interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8.00% per annum from 8/12/14 to 15/1/18 £1,037.09, and thereafter at a daily rate of £0.91 until judgement or sooner payment."

notice of assignment
default notice
formal demand

personally I'd also be asking for the agreement/contract as they mention that it was a credit card account and added a ref number
nemesis45
warwick65
Amethyst

would you agree??

**Amethyst** · 23rd January 2018, 13:35:PM

Well they do say 'breach of contract' so I reckon that's a contract mentioned - there must be terms to be able to have a breach, so they have mentioned contract ... they'd have to supply the agreement anyway under the CCA 1974 request so it's not essential but I would definately put Contract/Agreement in the CPR request.
Put it all in and they can argue the toss if they don't think they mentioned it.

NB: Warwick

There is no green box anymore as the forum has changed

I'll change the box at the top back to green .... getting there slowly.

**Kati** · 23rd January 2018, 13:41:PM

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

Well they do say 'breach of contract' so I reckon that's a contract mentioned - there must be terms to be able to have a breach, so they have mentioned contract ... they'd have to supply the agreement anyway under the CCA 1974 request so it's not essential but I would definately put Contract/Agreement in the CPR request.
Put it all in and they can argue the toss if they don't think they mentioned it.

can't believe I missed that lol ...

I PM'd you too when you get a chance to look at it xx

**warwick65** · 23rd January 2018, 13:47:PM

Originally posted by Amethyst View Post

NB: Warwick I'll change the box at the top back to green .... getting there slowly.

Cool- Just didn't want the OP wondering if they were going mad looking for a green box

Martinr67

A SAR is a subject access request - it costs £10 but you should get all the details of correspondence , calls etc that the original creditor holds. It may for example say when the DN was issued.

Now say the claimant doesn't know when the DN was issued and makes one up ( sorry, reconstitutes one) you could then argue it couldn't possibly be right because.....although the problem with that is you are saying you accept one was sent if you see what I mean.

**Martinr67** · 24th January 2018, 09:16:AM

Thanks for the advice above guys n gals.

So in précis I cannot rely on SB to stop action due to the 'reconstituted' default date, but I do know for a fact I have made no payments to the account since 30/08/2011.

I shall request the CCA submit the CRP31.14 and request a SAR before the end of this week.

I take the point about the DN dates. Awkward one.... Because arguing the original DN date would in itself admit liability,

As a last resort I shall use SB as a method of dealing with this. In the meantime folks I shall keep you all updated.

Cheers, Martinr67.

**nemesis45** · 24th January 2018, 09:55:AM

@MARTIN67

It may be worth a call to Lloyd data control department to see id they can confirm the default date ( this has worked before) alternatively a Subject Access Request to Lloyds foe all the personal data it holds on you.

**Martinr67** · 24th January 2018, 20:07:PM

Thanks...

Is this a good template to use for a SAR?

[Your full address]
[Phone number]
[The date]

[Name and address of the organisation]

Dear Sir or Madam

Subject access request

[Your full name and address and any other details to help identify you and the information you want.]

Please supply the information about me I am entitled to under the Data Protection Act 1998 relating to: [give specific details of the information you want, for example

your personnel file;
emails between ‘A’ and ‘B’ (between 1/6/11 and 1/9/11);
your medical records (between 2006 & 2009) held by Dr ‘C’ at ‘D’ hospital;
CCTV camera situated at (‘E’ location) on 23/5/12 between 11am and 5pm;
copies of statements (between 2006 & 2009) held in account number xxxxx).]

If you need any more information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible.

It may be helpful for you to know that a request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998 should be responded to within 40 days.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113 or at ico.org.uk

Yours faithfully
[Signature]

As these can take up to 40 days to get a response how should I inform the solicitor of my request as I am sure they will be keen to close this mess off?

CCA request and CPR31.14 in post tomorrow morning. I am also going to visit the local Lloyds bank to ask for an address to send the SAR to tomorrow morning.

Thanks,
Martinr67

**Diana M** · 25th January 2018, 11:33:AM

Originally posted by Martinr67 View Post

I cannot rely on SB to stop action due to the 'reconstituted' default date, but I do know for a fact I have made no payments to the account since 30/08/2011.

I shall request the CCA submit the CRP31.14 and request a SAR before the end of this week.

I take the point about the DN dates. Awkward one.... Because arguing the original DN date would in itself admit liability,

As a last resort I shall use SB as a method of dealing with this.

Was that last payment a contractual payment (minimum amount due under the Ts & Cs of the account) or were you making reduced payments on an Arrangement To Pay or via a Debt Management Plan etc?

When it comes to identifying the possible Statute Barred date (only the court can decide that legal issue) the Default Notice remedy date (if a compliant DN was issued) and the date the account was Defaulted are different things.

Di

**Martinr67** · 27th January 2018, 10:52:AM

Thanks Diana M.

The last payments were reduced payments that were agreed back in 2008 IIRC with the original lender Lloyds TSB.

I am sure the original account defaulted back in 2007/8 upon the receipt of a Lloyds TSB DN. Early next week I shall request a SAR from the original lender.

The CCA request and CPR31 have already been submitted and should have arrived with the relevant parties on the 26th Jan.

Do I need to notify the court of any action I take or will there be some automated process that is triggered here?

Never been in this situation before and one party has advised me to follow the SB route. I have never heard of statue barring or anything until this happened.

Another party advises to go down the route of CCA and CPR....

There is an element of confusion here! Especially regarding the definition of the DN.and when SB starts. So by my reckoning I need this SAR to establish dates and actions? But these can take up to 40 days.....

Cheers, Martinr67

**Martinr67** · 31st January 2018, 10:45:AM

Hello all,

Hoping for a bit of advice here...
CCA request and CRP sent off on 23/01

Northampton CCBC defence letter below: (is this the type of format I need to send?):.... Aaaaand, does the part in red Part 13, need to be removed as nothing has as yet been received? Should point 6 about SB be left in?

In the Northampton County Court Business Centre
Claim No: A1BC2345

First Credit (Finance) Limited
Claimant
And

Martinr67

Defendant

DEFENCE

I received the claim A1BC2345 from the Northampton County Court on 20^th January 2018
Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.
The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.
The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years
The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Lloyds Bank to First Credit (Finance) Limited on 21^st November 2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
It is denied that Lloyds Bank served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.
On the 23^rd January 2018 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Judge and Priestley LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.
Judge and Priestley LLP have not sent any of these documents to me.
On the 23/01/2018 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to First Credit (Finance) Limited pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.
The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.
I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined. [The Parties agreed to an extension to the time period allowed for filing of my defence under CPR 15.5 to allow the Claimants additional time to produce the relevant documentation to evidence their claim, however they have failed to do so.]
Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.
In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.
Signed Martinr67
Dated 31^st January 2018

Thanks in advance,
Martinr67

DISCONTINUED 1st Credit (Finance) Limited v martinr67