*** won *** Lowell provident ccj

[mrmonkey]

okay recieved a ccj claim pack lowells / provident sent requests for info never recieved anything sent my 1.00 cheque back and no info.
since then i filed an unjust order which has been ACEPTED BY MY LOCAL COUNTY COURT STAYING IT WILL BE STOOD UNTILL XX/XX/XXXX

since then lowells solicitors have come back with copy of agreement , redacted deed of assignemnet ,notice of assignemnet from both aassignor and claimant ,they then stated for clarity the claimant confirms no credit or debit of any sort was was applied to the assigned balance after assignment say for the limited interest and fixed costs and fees shown on the claim form. The claimant further confirms that no default notice will be relied upon since the agreement giving rise to the debt was a fixed term agreement the full term of which had expired before any attempt to enforce.

i always thought a default notice had to be there to enable someone to be aware they have defaulted and that debt collectors needed this anyway feeling like im over a barrel any help would be great .

[Amethyst]

Re: lowells provident ccj

unjust order? Application for an Unless order maybe? And you had an order back from the court stating that the claimant must file documents before a certain date or the claim would be struck out ?

Have you checked with the court if they have filed the documents ?

When was the end of the fixed term ? ( and when was your last payment/acknowledgment of the debt ?)

Does the agreement include all of the prescribed terms ?

The claimant further confirms that no default notice will be relied upon since the agreement giving rise to the debt was a fixed term agreement the full term of which had expired before any attempt to enforce.

Did the particulars of claim mention a default balance ?
Did you receive any communication about arrears before the end of the fixed period ?
What terms are in your agreement relating to the fixed term and prior default / missing payments ?

[warwick65]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi

What have they sent you for the provident loan? is it just one side because if it is there are likely to be the terms and conditions on the back.

As Amethyst says, when did you take the loan out?

Could you post suitably redacted copies of what they have sent you

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi yes sorry unless order which states

1. the claim is stayed

2.claimant must by 4pm on the 13th of june file at court and serve on defendant ( letter to me was dated 13th not recieved by then ) a copy of all the documents with which it proposes to rely to prove its case including, but not limited to , the loan agreement, and any assignement of the same .

3. in default of compliance with paragraph 2 above the claim shall stand struck out without further order.

4. take note that this order has been made without notice and you have the right to apply to stay, set aside, or vary this order provided such application is made within 7 days of receipt of this order

dated xxx may 2017



Not checked with court no as date was up yesterday, but my copy was not served on me till today the 14th says served by mail email but not recieved any email . and there letter is dated 13th but not served on me till 14th.

the loan was for 200.00 plus 90.00 interest over 29 weeks

i do not acknowledge any of the debt ,i have NOT denied having the loan as far as i am concerned the loan was paid.

i can not see the terms and conditions as they state on agreement on this side and overleaf on the copy sent to me by lowells only shows terms and conditions on the face side which does not state " that no default notice will be relied upon since the agreement giving rise to the debt was a fixed term agreement the full term of which had expired before any attempt to enforce. "

on the claimants claim to court they actual quote the sum is for xxx.xx due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for a provident personal credit limited account with an account reference of xxxx . the defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served under s.87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 which has not been complied with.the debt was legally assigned to the claimant 29/august/ 2014 notice of which was given to the defendant .

i recieved the odd leter from loweels regarding supposed debt, sent letters and rang denying i recognised any debt to them. I then heard nothing till i recieved a claim pack from county court sent cpr18 and letter denying debt to solicitors and lowells x2.

they replied once sending back a 1.00 refund for my cpr 18 and never returned the other 1.00 from second cpr18 and also never sent me any info.

i then submitted defence and unless order request.

on the original agreement i do not know terms as i do not have it the copy does not include terms and conditions but is the agreement as it has my signature on it, the terms and conditions of loan are on the back which i do not have copy off.

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi

What have they sent you for the provident loan? is it just one side because if it is there are likely to be the terms and conditions on the back.

As Amethyst says, when did you take the loan out?

Could you post suitably redacted copies of what they have sent you

yes just one side.

the loan was took out in november 2010

i can but will be tomorrow

in brief they have sent heavily censored account sale agreement

a copy of one side agreement

a statement which shows payments that i do not agree with and which is just a table with amounts, all mixed up dates and not a true copy of collectors book which they write in.

a copy of a letter from provident stating they have sold debt to lowells on non headed paper stating debt was sold on xx/aug/2014 and dated xx/sept 2014 also a letter from lowells stating they bought debt dated same date as provident.

tbh the statement and letter look like anyone could do it on a computer.


also on the sale of said debt from provident to lowells its dated the 15th of august yet lowells state they bought it later on in the same month and the letter from provident stating the debt was sold matches the later date not the date on the acount sale agreement

[Amethyst]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Had you sent a cca request or just a part 18 request ?

[warwick65]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Just a few questions more i am afraid

Do you still by any chance have the book that came with the loan? Clearly that would be very strong evidence that the loan was paid.

I am guessing that you were paying about £12 a week?

Did you send a specific S77 request for the agreement . I know you said they sent back the fee of £1 but yopu also mentioned sending a cpr 18 request
if you did, was the template from here, maybe you could post what you sent
I have a really horrible feeling I know where you got your initial advice from - GOODF?

I suggest you have a close read of the one sided agreement they sent you , if it is anything like mine it refers to terms overleaf and they didn't send them

Have you filed your witness statement ?

It is difficult to know exactly what stage you are at

- - - Updated - - -

If you have not sent a S77 request I think you need to send one tomorrow

Do you have a court date yet?

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

please let me start thanks for such quick responses wish i would have been here striaght from the start grrr kick myself.GOODF that obvious eh yeah unfortunatly they were where i got original advise after not being able to access/ then reply access forums i did some more searching came across here, probably to late.

ok i sent these templates



Datexxxx2017


I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY IN ANY FORM


Dear Sir/Madam

Account/Ref Noxxxxxxxx

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.

I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Please note, this money is not to be used for any purpose except as the required administration fee for the above request.

I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act. Please be aware that until you provide a copy of the credit agreement the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.
* You may not issue a court summons.

You should also be aware that unless or until you provide me with the the agreement requested under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it will remain Unenforceable at Law, and any legal proceedings taken out whilst the agreement request remains outstanding, will be Vexatious and Unlawful. Be aware also that the Financial Conduct Authority Regulations apply:

7.3.18: A firm must not threaten to commence court action, including an
application for a charging order or (in Scotland) an inhibition or an order
for sale, in order to pressurize a customer in default or arrears difficulties
to pay more than they can reasonably afford.

7.11.6: A firm must not suggest or state that action can or will be taken when
legally it cannot be taken.

I look forward to hearing from you within the allotted time scale.

Yours faithfully

xxxxxxxxxxxx


and i sent this also

CPR18 Request for further information.

On the xxxxxxx I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.
I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim, and on which you intend to rely. That request was ignored.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR18 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim and is made by way of Service upon You:

1.The agreement/contract, including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
2.The deed of assignment
3.The notice of assignment
4.The default warning letter
5.The default notice

6. I deny any indebtedness to the Claimant but particularly deny they are due statutory interest on the alleged amount of £xxxxx and as such I request full disclosure of the amount the Claimant alleges to have paid for this alleged debt.

7. Also, your Particulars of Claim state the action is brought for Breach of Agreement, yet you have failed to identify the specific Statutory Instrument you have commenced proceedings under. Therefore, I would be request details of the Statutory Instrument under which you have brought proceedings.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 18 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Failure to produce each and every document referenced within the Particulars of Claim (detailed above) will result in an Application to the Court for an Order of Disclosure.

Your CPR 18 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions, which are now in the possession of a third party.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

Yours faithfully

xxxxxxxxx

this is where i am disputing debt i was never given a book the collector wrote in a book, i paid 10.00 a week then after i stopped making payments as they were paid up a guy knocked at the door saying he was collecting loan for provident i explained i had paid loan up and he stated the collector had been sacked for fiddling i never heard anything till lowells started chasing debt .

also from this agreement copy ( one sided no t&C on back that side is missing ) it was vouchers i was issued i presume 4 of as there are 4 numbers, now when it comes to agreement number quoted by lowells it is actually one of the voucher numbers of which there are another 3 of which they dont mention not sure how agreement numbers work or if this is anything .

i basically sent a defense then i was asked if i would mediate which i stated no as i could not be certain to what debt they were impliing as they failed to give me any info as requested.

it was then i sent back my unless order and since which is now passed to my local county court and i am waiting to hear back from the unless order as whether lowells have delivered documents which they are stating they have filed with court so i presume next step is actual court.

what is a s77 ?

[warwick65]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi
Don't beat yourself up. I only knew it was GOODF because they advise (wrongly) to use a CPR 18 request. I do see their logic behind it but it is flawed logic, well at least until the claim is allocated to a track. They also use a CPR18 request as a phishing expedition when it should be used for very specific enquiries

I am glad you sent a S77-79 request with the fee. Can you prove it either by Lowell acknowledging their receipt in a letter of by proof of delivery.
Just to help in your request under section 77-79 , S77 is for a loan , S78 is for a running credit account such as a credit card and S79 hire purchase.

I am assuming you have submitted a defence - don't worry some of the defences I have seen from there are reasonable

have you submitted a witness statement to the court yet? Have you been instructed to submit one?
[MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] maybe this needs moving to received a court claim

lets see what we can do to kick Lowells in the goolies

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi i sent a s77 and did not even know it lol, they basically never signed for anything as the royalmail tracking for said letters never shown up as being recieved but they did send a letter back with a cheque for 1.00 which is for one of the postal orders i sent.
the letter states we refer to your recent request for further information regarding this account .

please find enclosed your returned fee of 1.00 in regards to your request for information under the consumer credit act 1974.

i filed this with the court.

so that proves they at least recieved one of them.
not sure with regards to witness statement just sent back defense

1: I received the claim Dxxxxxx from the Northampton County Court on xx/01/2017
2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3: This claim is for a Loan agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974
4: It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into agreements with Provident Personal Credit for provision of credit.
4: The Defendant Claims to Have Satisfied all original Credit agreements taken with provident personal Credit and there is no purpose of claim and denies owing any money to the claimant.
5: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.
6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Provident Personal Credit to Lowells Portfolio Ltd on xx/08/2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
7. It is denied that Provident Personal Credit served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974.The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.
8: On the xx/01/2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 18 to Cohen Cramer Solicitors. I requested the Claimant provide copies of 1a.The agreement/contract, including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. 2a.The deed of assignment 3a.The notice of assignment 4a.The default warning letter 5a.The default notice
9. Cohen Cramer Solicitors has not sent any of these documents to me.
10. On the xx/01/2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Lowells Portfolio pursuant to section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.
11. The Claimant has failed to comply with s77 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s77 (4)Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.
12: I have asked the Claimant If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with
this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.
13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.
15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.
Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.
Signed xxxxxxxxx
Dated xxx/02/2017

[warwick65]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Brilliant
you ave evidence they received the S77 request and you have lodged that in your defence

So the next move was an order for the claimant to disclose documents

have you been ordered to file a witness statement ?

Lets wait to see what they sent in response to the S77 request

if poss could you post up the redacted deed of assignment

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Brilliant
you ave evidence they received the S77 request and you have lodged that in your defence

So the next move was an order for the claimant to disclose documents

have you been ordered to file a witness statement ?

Lets wait to see what they sent in response to the S77 request

if poss could you post up the redacted deed of assignment

unless order which states

1. the claim is stayed

2.claimant must by 4pm on the 13th of june file at court and serve on defendant ( letter to me was dated 13th not recieved by then ) a copy of all the documents with which it proposes to rely to prove its case including, but not limited to , the loan agreement, and any assignement of the same .

3. in default of compliance with paragraph 2 above the claim shall stand struck out without further order.

4. take note that this order has been made without notice and you have the right to apply to stay, set aside, or vary this order provided such application is made within 7 days of receipt of this order

dated xxx may 2017



Not checked with court as date was up yesterday, but my copy was not served on me till today the 14th says served by mail email but not recieved any email . and there letter is dated 13th butobviously was not recieved till today the 14th .

so have they breached the unless order anyway as it states paragraph 2 must be served by the 13th.

not been ordered to make a witness statement as of yet.

i will post the stuff lowells have sent back tomorrow my scanner is not available till then .

[charitynjw]

Re: lowells provident ccj

says served by mail email but not recieved any email

CPR PD 6A
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...t06/pd_part06a

Service by fax or other electronic means

4.1 Subject to the provisions of rule 6.23(5) and (6), where a document is to be served by fax or other electronic means –
(1) the party who is to be served or the solicitor acting for that party must previously have indicated in writing to the party serving –
(a) that the party to be served or the solicitor is willing to accept service by fax or other electronic means; and
(b) the fax number, e-mail address or other electronic identification to which it must be sent; and
(2) the following are to be taken as sufficient written indications for the purposes of paragraph 4.1(1) – ..............(etc)

[Kati]

Re: lowells provident ccj

@Kati @Amethyst maybe this needs moving to received a court claim

lets see what we can do to kick Lowells in the goolies

done xx

[mrmonkey]

Re: lowells provident ccj

Hi sorry for the delay posting back health issues and what not been a hectic 2 weeks i have decided to try and get this thrown out by the disregard for not provideing said documents as ordered by the court on account lowell only posted documentation date of the actual deadline and the fact they claim they emailed yet nothing was arranged as per
CPR PD 6A
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...t06/pd_part06a

Service by fax or other electronic means

4.1 Subject to the provisions of rule 6.23(5) and (6), where a document is to be served by fax or other electronic means –
(1) the party who is to be served or the solicitor acting for that party must previously have indicated in writing to the party serving –
(a) that the party to be served or the solicitor is willing to accept service by fax or other electronic means; and
(b) the fax number, e-mail address or other electronic identification to which it must be sent; and
(2) the following are to be taken as sufficient written indications for the purposes of paragraph 4.1(1) – ..............(etc)



just wondering if you think this is the way to go i have not heard anything from the court but was wondering how would i start the letter to the court in regards to requesting this be thrown out in breach of the unless order.

thanking you in advance.