Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

[MillieB]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Hell's Bells they've move damn quick on this!
I hope a set aside app can be done as fast.

nem

Please can i have some advice of what to do now. I have the set aside papers and i have had a response from the solicitors, saying that it is not statue barred.

Thanks in advance

[Amethyst]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Have they mentioned BMW v Hart ?

It was 2008 the car was repossessed and since the day it was taken away i have made no contact with anyone about it.

Can you tell us a bit more about the agreement and the repossession of the car pls.

They haven't yet supplied the agreement under the CCA so they are still pooped.

[nemesis45]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Hello

yesterday i received a response from my letter to Mortimer Clarke (the template previously shown in this thread).

The letter is stating that the debt is not statue barred as the agreement was terminated 10/2010. They also state that if i disagree please set out precise legal basis giving the date on which I believe the debt became statue barred.

The trouble i have is, i know that the agreement was terminated way before that date but they are asking for precise legal basis and i have no paperwork whatsoever.

Any advice on what i should do now?

Thank you very much

Hello Millie,

There's a lot of this ploy of quoting the termination as the start of the relevant 6 year period.
Do you know the default date?

Is this debt on your credit files still.

Another claim on this forum has a similar situation I advised them to phone the original creditor for
details on the default date etc. this has provided the default date/last payment date. [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] is correct in suggesting mentioning the Appeal Court Judgement in BMW Finance - v - Hart
in which their Lordships rule that the default date is the start of the relevant 6 year period.

nem

[Amethyst]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

I think BMW v Hart ruled the termination date was the cause of action date for purposes of limitations act. It was based on specific circumstances and I believe normally repossession = termination = cause of action so the repo date would be the cause of action date in this case? I wasn't suggesting bringing up BMW, just wondered if MC had mentioned it in their missive that the debt is not stat barred.

Of course we have the lack of agreement / DN/ assignment arguments as well but SB is what the set aside may well hinge on.

[nemesis45]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

I think BMW v Hart ruled the termination date was the cause of action date for purposes of limitations act. It was based on specific circumstances and I believe normally repossession = termination = cause of action so the repo date would be the cause of action date in this case? I wasn't suggesting bringing up BMW, just wondered if MC had mentioned it in their missive that the debt is not stat barred.

Of course we have the lack of agreement / DN/ assignment arguments as well but SB is what the set aside may well hinge on.

I believe that the judgement may have been modified later.
nem

[Amethyst]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

The Court of Appeal’s decision is both pragmatic and commercially sound. The Agreement, like many others, stated that the balance became due upon termination. If the Agreement had been regulated by the CCA, termination is subject to the lender serving (where appropriate) a notice under the CCA (most commonly a default notice or, for non-default cases, a combined enforcement and termination notice). Notice is specifically required before a lender can become entitled to (amongst other things) demand "earlier payment of any sum".

I don't believe it applies anyway as the agreement in the case was not regulated but lots of the arguments against a debt being SB'd by lenders like Black Horse bring up BMW so if they are doing we should counter it in the set aside application ( hence asking if they brought it up)

[charitynjw]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

The general rule in contract is that the cause of action accrues when the breach occurs,not when the damage is suffered

Gibbs v Guild(1882) 9 QBD 59

[MillieB]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

I am in such a muddle as i dont have any paperwork. No details of this are on my credit report.

Can i contact black horse, if i should what should i be asking for?

Thanks everyone

[Amethyst]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

You can send a CCA request to blackhorse however as there is judgment in place they don't actually have any obligation to send it. I'll see if I can dig up any blackhorse agreements from around 2008 and see what their terms are.

Your set aside application is based on you not having received the court claim and the debt having been statute barred before they issued the claim.

Once the claim is set aside and you are allowed to defend, you can send a CCA request to the claimants to provide a copy of the agreement. You can also argue it is required as evidence/disclosure if the claimants are arguing against your claim of statute barring, as the terms in the contract are directly related.

You could though send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to Black Horse to get hold of any and all documents they hold about you which should include the agreement, transactions details and info about the reposession. This is worth doing (it costs £10) now even though it won't be back in time for the set aside application it should really help further down the line.

[Mika]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

hello millie

i have had their same letters from the same solicitor about the same creditor the only difference is my loan was not a HP agreement and was a personal loan. The car we got was not reprocessed for this reason. I have been told that had the loan been a HP agreement then the Limitations Act. Don't know if this correct or not? Maybe someone on here can confirm this?

I have just returned my court papers and this is the defence I have given below as advices by the CAB

I believe that in accordance to the Limitations Act 1980 the debt is staute-barred. My last payment or acknowledge towards this debt was December 2007
]In respect of an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is suggested that time runs from the date of default by the debtor, and that under the terms of the agreement, entitles the creditor to sue for the whole amount outstanding under the loan, and not from the date of expiry of the default notice. This would be after I missed one or two payments. ]The claimant has stated that 'BMW Fianancial Services V Hart is revelant, however as this case refers to a non-consumer credit act regulated hire purchase agreement I believe the relevant case would be Swansea City V Glass.

once I hear back I will let you know

good luck

Mika

The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
"Animo et Fide"

[MillieB]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

You can send a CCA request to blackhorse however as there is judgment in place they don't actually have any obligation to send it. I'll see if I can dig up any blackhorse agreements from around 2008 and see what their terms are.

Your set aside application is based on you not having received the court claim and the debt having been statute barred before they issued the claim.

Once the claim is set aside and you are allowed to defend, you can send a CCA request to the claimants to provide a copy of the agreement. You can also argue it is required as evidence/disclosure if the claimants are arguing against your claim of statute barring, as the terms in the contract are directly related.

You could though send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to Black Horse to get hold of any and all documents they hold about you which should include the agreement, transactions details and info about the reposession. This is worth doing (it costs £10) now even though it won't be back in time for the set aside application it should really help further down the line.

So i should still send off the papers for the set aside, should i respond to the letter i received from Mortimer Clarke?

How do i go about asking Black Horse for a subject access request? Sorry if i'm asking daft questions!

Thanks for your advise so far (and probably more in the future) i am so grateful for the help

- - - Updated - - -

hello millie

i have had their same letters from the same solicitor about the same creditor the only difference is my loan was not a HP agreement and was a personal loan. The car we got was not reprocessed for this reason. I have been told that had the loan been a HP agreement then the Limitations Act. Don't know if this correct or not? Maybe someone on here can confirm this?

I have just returned my court papers and this is the defence I have given below as advices by the CAB

I believe that in accordance to the Limitations Act 1980 the debt is staute-barred. My last payment or acknowledge towards this debt was December 2007
]In respect of an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is suggested that time runs from the date of default by the debtor, and that under the terms of the agreement, entitles the creditor to sue for the whole amount outstanding under the loan, and not from the date of expiry of the default notice. This would be after I missed one or two payments. ]The claimant has stated that 'BMW Fianancial Services V Hart is revelant, however as this case refers to a non-consumer credit act regulated hire purchase agreement I believe the relevant case would be Swansea City V Glass.

once I hear back I will let you know

good luck

Mika

The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
"Animo et Fide"

Good luck to you too Mika.

I am so tired of all this mess, can't wait to get it all sorted out. I have seriously considered to give in and pay the £50 a month installments just to put an end to it, i hate the stress. But then i think of what all those £50 installments and think No, get it sorted!

Hope it goes well for you

[MillieB]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

You can send a CCA request to blackhorse however as there is judgment in place they don't actually have any obligation to send it. I'll see if I can dig up any blackhorse agreements from around 2008 and see what their terms are.

Your set aside application is based on you not having received the court claim and the debt having been statute barred before they issued the claim.


Once the claim is set aside and you are allowed to defend, you can send a CCA request to the claimants to provide a copy of the agreement. You can also argue it is required as evidence/disclosure if the claimants are arguing against your claim of statute barring, as the terms in the contract are directly related.

You could though send a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act to Black Horse to get hold of any and all documents they hold about you which should include the agreement, transactions details and info about the reposession. This is worth doing (it costs £10) now even though it won't be back in time for the set aside application it should really help further down the line.

Hi again,

I have been through old paperwork box this evening and from other paperwork i have found a date that fits in with when the car was repossessed (this was my partners car for work, without it he had to quit his job, the paperwork i found is the date he started a job seekers allowance claim). So, should i write to Mortimer Clarke, stating that the agreement was terminated in April 2009. Therefore, this debt is statue barred and could they drop the CCJ?

Could you help me with wording of a letter to Mortimer Clarke as i worry it is properly worded and dont want to end up hanging myself.

Thanks xx

[nemesis45]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Hi again,

I have been through old paperwork box this evening and from other paperwork i have found a date that fits in with when the car was repossessed (this was my partners car for work, without it he had to quit his job, the paperwork i found is the date he started a job seekers allowance claim). So, should i write to Mortimer Clarke, stating that the agreement was terminated in April 2009. Therefore, this debt is statue barred and could they drop the CCJ?

Could you help me with wording of a letter to Mortimer Clarke as i worry it is properly worded and dont want to end up hanging myself.

Thanks xx

Responding to your PM

Hello Millie I'll read through all the thread and see what I can do.

nem

[MillieB]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Hi all,

tomorrow is the date when the first payment on the judgement is due. I have been waiting to hear back from Mortimer Clarke, in the hope they would withdraw as the debt is statute barred. But i havent heard anything!

Should i phone the court tomorrow and make the payment for a set aside? In which case i may need some more help, filling in the form.

Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: Mortimer Clarke Solicitors - Judgement

Hi all,

tomorrow is the date when the first payment on the judgement is due. I have been waiting to hear back from Mortimer Clarke, in the hope they would withdraw as the debt is statute barred. But i havent heard anything!

Should i phone the court tomorrow and make the payment for a set aside? In which case i may need some more help, filling in the form.

Thanks

Hello Millie responding to your PM

I the repossession 2010 means the debt was SB when the claim was issued.Yes set aside is the way forward so make the application.

You can download the N244 online.
If I'm not around I'm sure [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] will help you.

nem