Arrow Global going for CCJ

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The barcode section on the agreement - the first copy doesn't have the squiggle over - it looks like its a signature? possibly in order to 'execute' the agreement - which is missing on the first copy (where the barcode is just blacked out). Then the different one - which seems like it's an enlarged copy without any signatures on? has a squiggle over the barcode which would be hidden by the blacking out in the first copy.

Anyway, besides that oddness, in the copies of the terms on the back is there a clause 11 (as that's referred to on the front of the more legible copy) Also is that ALL the terms ? as without all the terms that make up the agreement it isn't enforceable. Neither of the smaller versions are legible - I don't know if you can read them on paper as they were sent to you?

Do all three have the same terms on?

There's definately some issues.


( ok crossed posts - yes there are the rest of the terms.... do they reproduce those which are on the signature page properly ?)

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

mmmm Condition 11 in those reproduced terms is about second cardholders rather than data protection....tho there is a small part I don't think that is the correct term 11 from the description of term 11 on the signature page ?? what do you reckon? Ok ignore me - it is titled Additional Cardholders (had to zoom in to read that bit)...

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Default charges are £12 - MBNA - with £0 charges for late payment or overlimit ? (para 5 of the terms) Was that the case in 2002 ?



hmmm 2003 MBNA has £12.00 charges - http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/a...MBNA/CCA_2.jpg

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Sorry - I attempted to upload the docs in a better resolution, but the site will only allow a certain size (understandable!) all the documents are pretty much legible, apart from the 'signed agreement' page, which even from their enlarged version it is really hard to make out...my eyes hurt trying to read it.

Do you think that is a signature then?

I have removed the signature from the signature box on the agreement, as well as my name and address...

The T&Cs appear to be the same. But...on the documents I have entitled T&Cs, my name and address appears, but it is an address I moved to at a later stage - perhaps a year later and not the address that they have initially for me - I wondered if that is normal?

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Ha! Nope! The documents you are talking about are (I think) the terms & conditions as would be produced now 2014 and not 2002 - as it also talks about electronic statements/SMS etc and the document name is NODISCID_0_CHRG_13, so am guessing it was written in 2013..... but isn't there something about they can send you T&Cs that are of a similar nature to back when the 'agreement' was made?

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Yes it does seem to match up ok just trying to pick holes really .... so the account defaulted in September 2007 and this claim was bought in January 2014? Have we been through the possibility of the debt being statute barred ? or were there payments / acknowledgements made in the intervening period ?

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Payments were made directly to MBNA and not to Arrow until last year... I was wondering as they have chosen to ignore my request for the Deed of Novation - could I argue that I do not have a contract with THEM for this debt? And would that stand up in court? Or should I just settle - pay it off monthly from now until forever!

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

I really don't know, where did the deed of novation stuff come from ? (ie where are your template letters and embarrased defence from? GOODF?)

eg;
6) The defendant demands that the claimants’ solicitor do provide proof that every legal right was transferred to Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd, by providing a copy of the deed of novation signed in tripartite form by all 3 parties.

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

I wrote the 3 letter process (GOODF) to their solicitors Wilkin Chapman in February and in my embarrassed defence I put the following:

6) The defendant demands that the claimants’ solicitor do provide proof that every legal right was transferred to Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd, by providing a copy of the deed of novation signed in tripartite form by all 3 parties.

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Thought it may have been.

Okay we need to look and see if there is a defence to the debt/claim.

So documents - we have the signed credit agreement, the reconstructed terms, the default notice as such it is, and the notice of assignment.

Your defence was based on not having those documents, which you now have, therefore you need to amend your defence.

Do you have any other issues with the original debt with MBNA ?

[Celestine]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The 'deed of novation' is of absolutely no relevance to defending this claim. I haven't had a chance to do a detailed analysis of the terms but that default notice is a massive problem for them. Only an agreement can be 'reconstituted', not a DN.
The cretin at Arrow who 'drafted' it didn't even allow sufficient time for the debtor to remedy the default as it allowed no time for service. They just thought 14 days dead would fit the bill. Only aTermination Notice could be issued by a new creditor.

[Amethyst]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Just a note. Debt originally defaulted June 07, and assigned to Arrow Global around then, then assigned from Arrow Global to Arrow Guernsey in March 2011.

The default notice is from Arrow Global 10 August 2007 - which is after it was assigned to them and two months after it had been defaulted.


Did you say you'd been paying MBNA till last year? ( ''Payments were made directly to MBNA and not to Arrow until last year.'') Need to look at payment history a bit - particularly as you were defaulted by MBNA in 2007 owing £13k and the claim is now £13k.

We don't have a default notice from MBNA, so they might have sold it without defaulting (I think Flaming Parrot mentioned they did that) however the NOA from MBNA to Arrow Global says default June 2007.


Here's the docs for reference.

Assignment from MBNA to Arrow Global (Default Date 30th June 2007)


Default Notice Sent by Arrow Global (10 August 2007)


Later Assignment (March 2011) from Arrow Global to Arrow Guernsey

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The only other issue I had with MBNA was that they refused to stop charges and interest amounting to £2,000 even after writing to them twice in Dec 2006 & Jan 2007.

[ironman]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Quick Question:

It was mentioned that Arrow Defaulted this account, not the original creditor and that the account needs to be defaulted before being sold (Assigned) to Arrow

Might i ask where in the CCA 1974 or anywhere else it stiplulates an account must be defaulted Prior to sale. As far as i am concerned a credit agreement is a commodity between two parties. The original creditor can sell the agreement to who ever he pleases, defaulted or not

Or am i totally barking up the wrong tree??

[Guest]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Quick Question:

It was mentioned that Arrow Defaulted this account, not the original creditor and that the account needs to be defaulted before being sold (Assigned) to Arrow

Might i ask where in the CCA 1974 or anywhere else it stiplulates an account must be defaulted Prior to sale. As far as i am concerned a credit agreement is a commodity between two parties. The original creditor can sell the agreement to who ever he pleases, defaulted or not

Or am i totally barking up the wrong tree??

The problem for them is not just assigning the agreement to a new creditor, s you say they can do this at any time. Unfortunately in order to enforce an action for all the sums due under the agreement it must first be terminated(otherwise the debtor is entitled to repay by installments). Section 87 of the act says that a debtor must be given the chance to remedy any breach of contract before the agreement can be terminated and sums not yet due demanded.

If the agreement has been sold the debtor cannot remedy.