Arrow Global going for CCJ

[bettyshotpot]

Hi there,

I have been looking through this site for some months now and have picked up some really good information/tools, which has got me so far down this very long and scary road..so thank you! ...but now I am a bit stuck.

I received a Court Claim from Arrow Global at Northampton in January 2014 for an MBNA credit card for £13K. I acknowledged receipt of the claim and gave an 'embarrassed defence' as I had requested CPR31.14 and a CCA, which neither had been forthcoming. I have since completed an allocation questionnaire/draft directions and these were filed 24th April. I received a bundle from Arrow on 30th April, which I really need help with. I have scanned and removed personal information, but just need to know if the 'signed agreement' as it stands would be enforceable? I have never received any of these documents prior to these requests and Arrow are asking for clarification as to why I believe a Deed of Novation is relevant to this account? Should I now request a SAR? or do I just write back and say that of course it is relevant...?

Do I have any hope in actually fighting this?

Any help at all will be much appreciated. Thanks.

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Sorry - also the letter received now attached... thanks

[littlebert8]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The default notice is extremely dodgy. For a start, how can Arrow issue a default notice for an account 4 years prior to it being assigned to them?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The default notice is extremely dodgy. For a start, how can Arrow issue a default notice for an account 4 years prior to it being assigned to them?

Indeed! DNs are always issued by the original creditor, since the debt wouldn't have been assigned to a debt purchaser until it was defaulted, how can Arrow issue a DN? That's a made up letter.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Hi there,

I have been looking through this site for some months now and have picked up some really good information/tools, which has got me so far down this very long and scary road..so thank you! ...but now I am a bit stuck.

I received a Court Claim from Arrow Global at Northampton in January 2014 for an MBNA credit card for £13K. I acknowledged receipt of the claim and gave an 'embarrassed defence' as I had requested CPR31.14 and a CCA, which neither had been forthcoming. I have since completed an allocation questionnaire/draft directions and these were filed 24th April. I received a bundle from Arrow on 30th April, which I really need help with. I have scanned and removed personal information, but just need to know if the 'signed agreement' as it stands would be enforceable?

The attachments are not legible enough to read, is that the way they were sent or just a low res scan?

I have never received any of these documents prior to these requests and Arrow are asking for clarification as to why I believe a Deed of Novation is relevant to this account? Should I now request a SAR? or do I just write back and say that of course it is relevant...?

Do I have any hope in actually fighting this?

Any help at all will be much appreciated. Thanks.

You could, send one, they have 40 days to respond. :clock: What are you hoping to find out from a SAR?

[littlebert8]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Indeed! DNs are always issued by the original creditor, since the debt wouldn't have been assigned to a debt purchaser until it was defaulted, how can Arrow issue a DN? That's a made up letter.

Indeed, the DN is a complete fabrication. The remedy by date (24/08/07) doesn't even tie up with "default date" (30/06/07) shown in the MBNA letterhead assignment letter.

Its also unusual for the date of assignment (24/03/11) to be so long after the default date - from what I've experienced myself and seen on the forums, MBNA tend to sell accounts around the date of default - sometimes even a few days before! And they don't seem to have much trouble reproducing a default notice - even if it takes the assignee some time obtain it from them.

[littlebert8]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Could you post up a copy of the particulars of claim, your CPR31.14 request and your defence please?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Indeed, the DN is a complete fabrication. The remedy by date (24/08/07) doesn't even tie up with "default date" (30/06/07) shown in the MBNA letterhead assignment letter.

Its also unusual for the date of assignment (24/03/11) to be so long after the default date - from what I've experienced myself and seen on the forums, MBNA tend to sell accounts around the date of default - sometimes even a few days before! And they don't seem to have much trouble reproducing a default notice - even if it takes the assignee some time obtain it from them.

Ah, but there are exceptions. My MBNA card was last paid in Jan 2010, I've never received a NoA and it's not because I've moved, been living here since 2007! MBNA never passed my account even to an external DCA, only to in-house DCRI who pestered me during 2010. After that all I received was a letter in Dec 2011 in response to my letter of Dec 2010 (it's not a typo, it took A YEAR to reply!) where they said they would no longer correspond with me about the fact they couldn't locate my agreement, that's the last I heard with regards to this card...

As far as I know, it's never been sold, even when virtually all MBNA accounts were sold to Arrow in 2012. :noidea:

[Ruby]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Indeed! DNs are always issued by the original creditor, since the debt wouldn't have been assigned to a debt purchaser until it was defaulted, how can Arrow issue a DN? That's a made up letter.

Arrow bought my secured loan without the account being defaulted by OC

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

The attachments are not legible enough to read, is that the way they were sent or just a low res scan?

You could, send one, they have 40 days to respond. :clock: What are you hoping to find out from a SAR?

Hi there,

The scan is 'almost' as good as the copy, it is very hard to decipher the wording, there are also blacked out parts on the copy given to me - which makes parts of the document completely impossible to read.
From the SAR I was hoping for everything I have already asked for...

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Could you post up a copy of the particulars of claim, your CPR31.14 request and your defence please?

Hi! Thanks for helping...here is as requested....


I wrote a template CPR31.14 request as follows:

Today, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton (CCBC) County Court.

I confirm I am in the process of returning my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I will indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2 The assignment

3 The default notice

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.


Then my 'embarrassed' defence was ....

The Defendant denies any & all claims of indebtedness as so alleged by the claimant Arrow Global Guernsey to any & all sum(s) claimed & therefore requires of the Claimant/Claimants’ solicitor as to strict proof of each and every fact pleaded in their particulars of claim.
1) The Defendant demands by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, that the Claimant/Claimants’ solicitor do provide a certified copy of the alleged written agreement referred to in the particulars of claim, as the defendant recalls signing no such document.
2) The Defendant denies receiving any Notice of Assignment sent under the hand of the assignor in accordance with s.136 of the law of property act 1925, and puts the claimant/ claimants’ solicitor to strict proof by providing a copy of said notice as referred to in the particulars of claim.
3) The Defendant denies being served a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and puts the Claimant to strict proof by providing a copy of said Default Notice as referred to in the particulars of claim.
4) The Defendant denies signing any agreement with the Claimant and demands the Claimant provide a certified copy of the Deed of Assignment signed by MBNA, the Defendant & the Claimant as proof they have the right title and interest to pursue the alleged debt.
5) The Defendant demands that in accordance with s.136 (1) of the law of property act 1925, that the claimants solicitor do provide proof of absolute assignment, by providing a certified copy of the deed of assignment between the assignor and Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd to show proof that they had complete transfer and ownership ( all rights, title, interest, benefits and liabilities) and that they have the power to give good discharge pursuant to s.136 (1) (c) of the law of property act. As referred to in the particulars of claim.
6) The defendant demands that the claimants’ solicitor do provide proof that every legal right was transferred to Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd, by providing a copy of the deed of novation signed in tripartite form by all 3 parties.
7) On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
Lord Denning states in the Pelias Construction Case (Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968 [3] All ER 824) where he said the debtor is entitled to "view the sale agreement to ensure that the assignee can give him good discharge under the contract."

"In order that the assignee may obtain the benefit of the Law of Property Act 1925, express notice in writing of the assignment must be given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim the debt or the chose or thing in action".

The claim is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:
(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; and
(d) show how and when the agreement was breached:

8) As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.
9) As per letter received 14^th February 2014 attached from Wilkin Chapman LLP, on behalf of Claimant, a provision of 14 days extension has been granted, once the requested documents namely, Original Note (Credit Agreement), the Deed of Assignment, the Deed of Novation, the Default Notice and any other documents regarding this case including a statement of account have been served on the Defendant, date to be specified by Claimant. Without clarification of the Claimants claim, the Defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the Claimant’s claim appears without merit. Until such time as documents are received, the Defendant is unable to further plead to the Particulars of Claim.
The defendant asks that the Court specify to the Claimants the period for responding 15.4 (d) rule 6.12(3).
10) Until such time the Claimant is prepared to respond and disclose the requested documents for the reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
11) By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

I, believe the above statement to be true and factual

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

I wrote to Arrow on 7th May replying to their bundle sent (as attached here back in May) this was my letter to them... I have not received a response from them until now... letter was received on 11th June, but dated 4th June.


My letter....

‘Account' In Dispute

DO NOT IGNORE THIS COMMUNICATION/LETTER - LITIGATION ADVICE

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

Thank you for your letter, dated 28th April 2014, posted and post marked on 29th April 2014 and received a day later than the Courts’ deadline on 30th April 2014.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contains the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both the creditor and myself as defined in s.61(1) of the CCA(1974) and subsequent Statutory
Instruments.

If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

The documents I received appear to be illegible photocopies of the Terms & Agreement. The prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974, are not at all visible and therefore the documents provided do not constitute a ‘true copy’. As you are no doubt aware, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI/1557) states:

2 - Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].

What you sent does not comply with current CCA legislation because without such agreement, I am unable to adjudge my position effectively. For this to occur, I would require a "true legible copy" of the actual agreement that apparently exists and I therefore appeal to you to fulfil my request. I am willing to pay any reasonable charge that you feel is necessary, in order to provide a copy of the “actual” credit agreement. In considering my request, I ask that you take a common sense approach and do not hold to the line that you have provided all that is expected of you nor the recent test case in Manchester, namely, and to be known as: Carey v HSBC Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB) (23 December 2009).

Similarly, in line with the recent Cabot v Bachellier judgment from 2010 (DDJ Winslett), it was determined that an illegible copy would not suffice. I quote from the judgment; "The evidence that I did hear, and certainly Mr McCausky endeavoured to do the best he could on the information that was available, but there were holes in providing perhaps clearer details relating to the original contract. I am not satisfied that the claimants have complied with section 78(1). Nor am I satisfied that the documents that they did supply and with the best will in the world, and I pondered over this because it is a question of common sense, it is not a question of law or otherwise, whether or not the documents that were put before me were legible. I do not find that they were and therefore, in those circumstances, in light of those two findings that I make under section 78 and the under the Regulations, and as it was conceded by Mr Newman at the outset of this case if I find against the claimants on those points then the claim must fail and therefore in those circumstances, although I find that the debt was assigned, I do not find that there has been compliance by the claimants with the provisions of section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act, nor the provisions of Regulation 2(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notice and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, and therefore in those circumstances this case must fail"

I do not think it is a lot to ask for you to simply go and fetch the original agreement, photocopy it and pop it in an envelope to me. The only reason that I can presume avoidance of such a simple process is if you never actually had a copy of the original agreement, in which case may I remind you that OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by: hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones. Similarly, in line with recent OFT Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated the following:

Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get: a copy of their agreement copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement, a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the ‘debt’ becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot get a court judgement against the ‘debtor’.

In order to be able to ascertain my position effectively, I would require a "true copy" of the actual agreement that apparently exists. I also require that you clarify your position on this poin,t as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter to which an appropriate complaint will be made to the OFT.

I have a right to see the Deed of Assignment - Lord Denning states in the Pelias Construction Case (Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968 [3] All ER 824) the ‘debtor’ is entitled to "view the sale agreement to ensure that the assignee can give him good discharge under the contract”.

I do, after all, make my request in good faith and feel it is a nonsense approach to hold to the idea that you won’t provide this document because you simply don’t have to.

Further, according to the documents you sent, MBNA transferred all obligations of this ‘account’ and not just the benefits to a ‘third party’ (yourselves), thus there must also be a deed of novation, which I have requested on numerous occasions and still require a copy of.

In light of the above, I consider this account to be unenforceable until such time you properly comply with my original s.78 request and send a photocopy of the original purported document(s), if it/they exist. If it/they do not, then you must confirm this to me in line with your licensing guidance, as detailed above.

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place; irrespective, unless you do supply a photocopy of the original agreement and other documents requested, I will not correspond with you again and any threats will be averred as unlawful and vexatious with a counter-claim forthcoming.

Yours faithfully,


I will attach their letter, along with the now different Agreement (has not been scribbled on as much or blacked out by them)... Any advice would be gratefully received...

Thanks,

Betty

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

Plus these...

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

And a few more...

[bettyshotpot]

Re: Arrow Global going for CCJ

And finally... this is the last document.