CCJ help please

[MissFM]

Re: CCJ help please

Ha I didn't even notice that!

The next ones are 60.30 and VAT @ 10.55 and 190.95 and VAT @ 33.42 my mind is way too pickled now to work out if they are right or not. Will put this to bed for the night and try and deal with any further questions with a clear head tomorrow. Like I said I do some work with invoices both professionally and personally and have never seen anything like this.

Those are more plausible (quick and dodgy mental arithmetic) - but, as Amethyst is hinting above, it would seem a good idea to insist on a very detailed account of their costs.

If it were me I would write a formal complaint to their Managing Partner requiring them to produce detailed accounts as to their exact costs and how they have been calculated, citing the above miscalculation and the other peculiarities of their invoices that you have noted.

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

I'm going to admit that I haven't made time to read all of this thread from the start but I do know that a solicitor has a duty of care to its client. If you were entitled to Legal Aid (and you definitely were entitled to Legal Aid for this case) and your solicitor was aware that you were entitled to Legal Aid (are there notes on file on this?) then your solicitor should have progressed your application. The fact that the firm didn't get you to sign the Legal Aid application form may be their problem not yours.

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

Thinking back the issue with the whole legal aid situation is that at the time of first signing with the firm my ex was claiming joint income support for both of us and it wasn't until 17 May 2010 that I was entitled to it in my own right as they wouldn't do a single claim for me whilst he was still claiming and it took a lot of legwork with the benefits agency to get it all sorted.

Were you BOTH covered by legal aid until the 17th May seeing as your ex was claiming joint income support, did the 2 of you get (if there is such a thing) joint legal aid too??????

OK...here's what I have...3 invoices 1 dated 6/5/2010 for £1475.22, 1 dated 9/6/10 for £70.85 and 1 dated 21/7/10 for £224.37 mostly made up of telephone calls at £201 per hour (which I believe is to me to deal with my instructions as I was unable to attend the offices but can't confirm this without the SAR) making a total of £1770.44 the bill now stands at £1070 because of payments I have made

If you did get joint legal aid then the first invoice has already been paid

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

Also you weren't entitled to Legal Aid until 17 May 2010 but the work was done 6th May. What's the breakdown of that 6th May amount ?

Says who? :confused2: If Legal Aid is granted in divorce proceedings it's usually backdated to the application for divorce. This may be different in the OP's case but she needs to check this out.

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

You have right up until the next hearing AND at the hearing, to make a request for more time or a strike out

If they supply the info on the last day before (or very close to) the next hearing then you can request more time to compile your defence as they have taken so long to comply with your request, so time is NOT an issue now as a judge will be on your side with this, as you are allowed 21 days as per court rules to compile your defence

If they don't supply then that is all the better for you as you then can either request more time or apply for their claim to be struck out

What would be the basis for the OP to apply for a strike out? As I understand it the OP has made a SAR request not a CPR request.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ help please

Abbiesmom mentioned it earlier regarding her income support claim. I was simply pointing out the discrepancy in the invoices and dates. A breakdown is certainly needed of that invoice and copies of all the legal aid documents.

I'll look back in tmw at the directions but possibly need a draft order for disclosure of such information if they aren't providing it except under the SARs and it needed to defend, or admit, the claim.

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

Were you BOTH covered by legal aid until the 17th May seeing as your ex was claiming joint income support, did the 2 of you get (if there is such a thing) joint legal aid too?

There is no such thing

[PlanB]

Re: CCJ help please

Maybe I'm doing something wrong (wouldn't surprise me) I'm new to all this claim malarkey!

They only thing you are doing wrong is assuming that you owe the solicitor anything when you were probably entitled to Legal Aid to cover your legal costs. Moreover the firm knew that.

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

What would be the basis for the OP to apply for a strike out? As I understand it the OP has made a SAR request not a CPR request.

What I was thinking was if they didn't supply under the SAR and the court date was coming very close, then make an application for either

an extension for time in order from them to comply
(which if they haven't complied under SAR then I doubt they will comply at all, as if they were cosha, and as they are solicitors, I would of thought they would be throwing all documentation at the OP to show they had a good case)

or

an application for a unless order for them to comply with SAR or be struck out (which is the one I would personally go for since they still won't comply with the SAR and its that close to the hearing date)


Apologies to all if this is wrong or CAN'T be done at this stage of proceedings



one thing that I have just noticed now, which I didn't at time of posting is, I'm not sure if the 40 days will be up BEFORE the 31st December so there's a good chance that an extension for time may be needed to allow them the full 40 days they are entitled to

I have not went back through the whole thread yet to see when the SAR request was made

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

There is no such thing

Thanks Plan B as I had no idea if that was possible or not, but I thought it was worth the question because of the dates

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ help please

A SAR would be separate ... you'd have to wait your 40 days then do an l b a then a claim under dp a which is always tricky.

To get the info for court it'd have to be a CPR based request for information.


We have some directions, will look in morning xxx

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

I have just re read the whole thread again,
Regarding the SAR request that you sent on 25/11/13
Was it a SAR template letter that you got from LB or another forum, or did you word the request yourself??
(if the request was NOT a SAR template letter from a forum, can you post up a copy of what you sent, JUST so the wording can be assessed to see if there is anything in it that can be used further to help you)
Have you send the SAR £10 fee???............if you have, when did you send it???

I have requested all information to which I am entitled under the Data Protection Act 1998 particularly relating to any work carried out on my behalf in 2010 whilst living at my previous address which I stated. Letter goes on to say should they require further information or payment for this service then they are to inform me ASAP. This was faxed to the company on 25/11. Nothing from them as yet.

Also have you made any application for a Detailed Costs Assessment or contacted the Legal Aid Agency as Plan B suggested

Next you need to establish whether you can have the solicitor's costs assessed for accuracy. This is done by making an application for a Detailed Costs Assessment. Strictly speaking this should be done within three months of getting the bill, but since you say the solicitor never sent you the Bill of Costs then you should be able to still apply for an assessment to get the bill reduced or even cancelled if the firm messed up over the Legal Aid issue. With any luck (and you'll need formal legal advice on this point) the county court proceedings could be stayed to allow for the costs assessment to go ahead. Here's some information on how to go about getting costs assessed:

http://uk.practicallaw.com/5-204-8012

Finally it's unusual for someone on benefits (Income Support) divorcing due to domestic violence issues not to be granted Legal Aid particularly in 2010 (things are a bit tighter these days). If I were you I would contact the Legal Aid Agency (which replaced the Legal Services Commission in April this year) to get more details on your original application and apparent rejection. There's always the possibility that the solicitors failed to complete the formal process. Here's how to contact the LAA to check out what really did happen. It's not a very helpful link so I'll try to pop back later with a better one

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/rcj...ts-office/fees

Finally, as Amethyst suggested this will help you get everything in order, and us to get a clearer view of what has happen and when everything happened

I think possibly the best next step for you to take is to sit down with all your paperwork and write the basis of a witness statement. This will help get the case clear in your mind and put everything in order - you'll be needing to do one for the court later anyway and it would be good to have the information in a formal format to read through.

So a WS is basically factual events in a chronological list, without legal argument, just facts.

very rough example........

1: On XX May 2007 I engaged solicitors to bring divorce proceedings against xxxxxxx
2: On XX May I completed form XXX to apply for Legal Aid whilst at the offices of solicitors xxxxxxxxx - Copies of benefits forms etc were taken
3: On XX June I received a letter from xxxxxx solicitors ( EXHIBIT B) requesting I attend their office to sign paperwork which I believed to be Legal Aid
4: On XX Dec I received the court claim XXXXX from the claimant.


Worth doing as you will know what documentation you have - the 'exhibits' and what is needed and we'll be able to understand the case a bit more.

[Gorang]

Re: CCJ help please

Another thing I wondered about was making a complaint about the solicitors, so I did a search on how to, and found that The Legal Ombudsman deal with complaints, BUT, I wondered if they would do anything as its already in the hands of the court, and also if they would do anything after the case is concluded
Well I found a PDF in here
http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/abo...eme-rules.html
about the rules, and the only thing I can find to say weather a complaint can be made or not whilst legal proceedings have started is in 5.7 (f) which says

"Grounds for dismissing or discontinuing a complaint"
"5.7 An Ombudsman may (but does not have to) dismiss or discontinue all or part of a complaint if, in his/her opinion:

(f) a comparable independent complaints (or costs-assessment) scheme or a court is dealing with the same issue, unless those proceedings are first stayed (by agreement of all parties or by court order) so that the Legal Ombudsman can deal with the issue"

Which got me thinking

If the solicitors lose in court then they just lose in court, no-one is none the wiser really, and its probably just chalked up to a loss (I am assuming so if I am wrong then please correct me) and poss get a dressing down from the judge which doesn't go very far (as I experienced when I had Clydesdale in court 3 times in 07 and they got rollocking each time)

BUT

If the case was dealt with by the Ombudsman and the solicitor loses, then the solicitor has a chance of getting a black mark against them or even a warning or a fine or something, point being, some one WILL be the wiser of what the solicitor is doing/has done, and there is a better chance of them getting rapped over the knuckles with hopefully something big (again please correct me if I have this assumption wrong)

Now
If they don't play ball with the SAR then, could it be possible to make a request/an application for a court order for the case to be stayed for it to be put to the Ombudsman (as I can't see the Solicitors agreeing to anything like that when they're not playing ball with a simple SAR) for investigation.

If it is possible for abbiesmom to apply/request a court order for a stay to put the case to the ombudsman, would that make her look good to the court, as she is showing she is trying to avoid using court time (as court has already mentioned mediation)

Would it be easier, for the ombudsman to see better what has happened about the legal aid instead of abbiesmom having to get proof to show to the court (as again I am assuming that they would look for themselves as apposed to abbiesmom having to provide the proof of that) and would the Ombudsman be able to see things that abbiesmom wouldn't get by requesting anything from legal aid ie what the solicitor has or hasn't done

Also there is (as far as I can tell) a £400 fee that is payable ONCE the case is closed/settled, which could put people off from making the complaint

(BUT the solicitors would need to pay that when/if they lose, which I am convinced they will, altho nothing is a guarantee)

I am only throwing ideas out there and I don't know if it is possible to do, I really hope it is, but I hope that someone can clarify what I have said or correct me, as I am assuming a few things here, so if I have any of it wrong then please correct me

[MissFM]

Re: CCJ help please

Another thing I wondered about was making a complaint about the solicitors, so I did a search on how to, and found that The Legal Ombudsman deal with complaints, BUT, I wondered if they would do anything as its already in the hands of the court, and also if they would do anything after the case is concluded
Well I found a PDF in here
http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/abo...eme-rules.html
about the rules, and the only thing I can find to say weather a complaint can be made or not whilst legal proceedings have started is in 5.7 (f) which says

................................

Would it be easier, for the ombudsman to see better what has happened about the legal aid instead of abbiesmom having to get proof to show to the court (as again I am assuming that they would look for themselves as apposed to abbiesmom having to provide the proof of that) and would the Ombudsman be able to see things that abbiesmom wouldn't get by requesting anything from legal aid ie what the solicitor has or hasn't done

.........................
I am only throwing ideas out there and I don't know if it is possible to do, I really hope it is, but I hope that someone can clarify what I have said or correct me, as I am assuming a few things here, so if I have any of it wrong then please correct me

I was also thinking along the lines of an SRA/LOS complaint, which I believe would require the OP to have first gone through the solicitor's own complaints procedure.

Not, as I understand it, that that would immediately solve the court issues but it might help pave the way - with the further evidence of a lack of rigor on the solicitors part - for some kind of remission/redress for the OP.

[abbiesmom]

Re: CCJ help please

It seems if I don't stay on here 24/7 I come back to a load of questions!!!

I'll post my SAR as I have that to hand. I found it somewhere on the web but don't recall where and used it to fax the letter on 28/11/13

To SOLICITORS

Re: Data Request

Please send me the information you hold in me to which I am entitled under the Data Protection Axt 1998. I would particularly like you to provide information/copies of all items relating to work you were instructed to carry out on my behalf in 2010 whilst I was living at xxxx

If you need further information from me, or if you require a payment for this request please inform me as soon as possible.

I look forward to hearing from you.

yours faithfully
My name and signature.


This was faxed same dame and I have the transmission verification report showing it sent without fail