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Private car sale to trader - received court claim

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  • DTrebor
    started a topic Private car sale to trader - received court claim

    Private car sale to trader - received court claim

    Hi,

    I sold a car privately on 31/07 to an individual who is a trader. They took the car for a test drive of at least 7 miles with them driving, testing the performance and features of the car, and visually inspected the car both before and after this test drive. No issues were remarked upon during the test drive or at any other point during the transaction. The V5C was filled out in the name of his company, he paid directly into my bank account and drove away.

    Approximately 1.5 hours later (approx 30 miles according to location mentioned) I received a text from the buyer saying that he had heard a "whining" noise coming from the car. He said he believed it to be a bearing problem in the rear diff, and started quoting me general prices in the thousands it would cost to repair if he was correct. When I asked why this whine wasn't evident during the test drive he suggested that it only became apparent on "fresh road surfaces". Not being mechanically minded myself I took much of what he was saying as gospel, and suggested that he take it in to a main dealer to work out what's what.

    A few days later he texted me to say that he had taken it to his local main dealer who confirmed a fault with the rear diff due to low oil. Initially this was blamed on the car manufacturer (specifically the main dealer where I took the car) for previous warranty work in the proximate area, so I facilitated him speaking to where I had previously taken it for all servicing as a courtesy (i.e. I phoned them to tell them they could speak to him with my authority about servicing and maintenance work that had been done in the past on the car). Again, because I am not mechanically minded I was taking what he was saying in text about them being responsible as authoritative. On more than one occasion at this point he said in text that he did not believe I was to blame or that I knew of the fault.

    Eventually, a few days later, he texted again to say that the diff had been diagnosed by the main dealer as "being shot", with a quote to repair of over £5000. At this point he said that the main dealer had told him that they are not responsible, so he said that it was only fair that he got a contribution from me, and that if I failed to do so he would go legal.

    I replied saying that I was not aware of the fault at the point of sale, the statements made about the car were made from the position of a private individual with no mechanical expertise who took the car to the main dealer for everything, which was evidenced by the full service history with no expense spared. I pointed out that he had every opportunity to request a full mechanical inspection before purchase but chose not to, and that we went on an extended test drive where I did not inhibit what functions or features of the car were tested, and no such fault or any other was identified then. I also said that there was no manufacturer warranty in place (as was explicitly said on the test drive) and that as a private sale there was no warranty from me as it was implied sold as seen.

    That was my last communcation with him, as at this point with the threat of legal action I considered it imprudent to continue our dialogue.

    I received a money claim form in the post on 17/08, for nearly £4000 (including claim form fee). I did not receive any pre-action letter. I have acknowleged the claim online, and responded to say that I rejected the claim in full. I have not yet filed my defence.

    His claim makes reference to the fact that I had said that I did not believe there would be anything to pay until the next MOT, but this was said in the context of scheduled maintenance (the car had been serviced earlier in the year, with 4 new tyres, and MOT was not due until the end of the year) and that I initially said in a text that he'd have to get it looked at and we'd have to work out what was wrong, but this was again in the context of him blaming the main dealer where I had previously taken the car for fault.

    From my perspective I sold the car 100% in good faith as a private individual without knowledge of any fault. I have got some initial legal advice and been told that the cost to defend it with legal help would eclipse the claim cost, and the solicitor said they believed that is why these claims are effective as a means to essentially "get more money" from a sale.

    In terms of my statements about not believing the car would need money spending on it until the next MOT - obviously it would be impossible for anyone, especially a layperson such as myself, to be able to guarantee or say with any authority that a vehicle would not break down or develop a fault at any time. The statement was strictly made in the context of the next scheduled expenditure - an MOT. Regards the comments about him taking it in to get diagnosed and working out what's what from there - that was a statement about needing to find out exactly what was wrong, in context of him initially blaming the main dealer for causing the fault.

    I have not seen or heard evidence of this fault myself, I only have the claimant's word that it is/was there. I have not seen a report of the fault nor an invoice for repair.

    The solicitor said colloquially that "he doesn't have a leg to stand on" as a trader buying a car from me as a private individual, but nevertheless I'm looking down the barrel of a several thousand pound claim and am keen to get some advice, etc. Whilst I feel my case is strong I have also been led to believe that in Small Claims Track when you're in front of a judge any outcome is possible. There are some other factors which I believe are in my favour or at least cast doubt on the integrity of the claimant that I have not mentioned because to do so would make it more identifiable.

    Thanks in advance for any help or advice given
    Tags: None

  • GBExile
    replied
    Originally posted by DTrebor View Post
    Just thought I'd post to say that this can be moved to the Concluded Cases subforum. It's been over a year since it was struck out for non-payment of trial fee, and nothing has happened since.

    I made a donation as suggested above at the time.


    Very honourable. Not many of us left!!

    Take care.

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    Just thought I'd post to say that this can be moved to the Concluded Cases subforum. It's been over a year since it was struck out for non-payment of trial fee, and nothing has happened since.

    I made a donation as suggested above at the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    Once I know for sure it's dead and buried I will be happy to donate.

    Leave a comment:


  • GBExile
    replied
    Originally posted by DTrebor View Post
    Just to draw this to a probable close, I received notice today that the claim has been struck out for failure to comply with the Unless order to pay the trial fee, and a subsequent Unless order to serve on the court and myself a reply to my defence (previously just a regular order with a deadline in January, but elevated to an Unless order after the Claimant failed to comply)

    Obviously there is a chance the Claimant could try and get the strike set aside but given his almost religious inability to comply with orders, including two Unless orders, I would like to think it would be denied.

    Thanks to everyone who provided help, particularly early on in the thread, and in particularGBExilewho messaged me regularly after the thread went cold to offer encouraging advice.
    It was always going to happen from the start. It is a bit shocking when someone takes you to court for £4k. He was taking the mick from the start. It is over now.

    Anyway you owe me a pint. But instead of that can you donate £10 to https://www.macmillan.org.uk*thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    Just to draw this to a probable close, I received notice today that the claim has been struck out for failure to comply with the Unless order to pay the trial fee, and a subsequent Unless order to serve on the court and myself a reply to my defence (previously just a regular order with a deadline in January, but elevated to an Unless order after the Claimant failed to comply)

    Obviously there is a chance the Claimant could try and get the strike set aside but given his almost religious inability to comply with orders, including two Unless orders, I would like to think it would be denied.

    Thanks to everyone who provided help, particularly early on in the thread, and in particular*GBExile*who messaged me regularly after the thread went cold to offer encouraging advice.
    *

    Leave a comment:


  • pt2537
    replied
    you should get the N271 notice that confirms the case is being transfered to your local court, once there, the case will then be given case management directions, most likely if you havent already you will be ordered to file directions questionaires, and you will have to also file directions tooo. Once this has been done the Court will tell you how the case will progress.

    Leave a comment:


  • GBExile
    replied
    Any news? Have you got your official transfer to your local court document?

    Leave a comment:


  • GBExile
    replied
    Well done for getting it transferred to your home court. Obviously whoever listed it to the claimants home court in the first place didn't read your defence & presumed you were a trader.

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    Originally posted by des8 View Post
    PMs are not encouraged on this site, for the very reason that they can be missed, individual posters could be ill, absent or just stopped posting.
    If you want to be surer of a response keep in the public domain
    Sure thing. To be honest I wasn't getting replies on here either, since the start of September only GBExile has been replying to me and offering assistance (for which I am grateful). I had assumed I had maybe offended Amethyst somehow (I can't think how) since she had been replying to other threads in the interim, but not this one.

    I appreciate the help is free so I can't expect any more than what I'm given, but I hope you can understand that it feels a bit demoralising to post updates only to have one person actively engaging with me.

    Anyway, the short version of the current state of play is as follows:

    - I sent off my DQ to the court and Claimant as instructed (via email and to be safe a hard copy via Special Delivery) before the deadline on the email. I have received nothing from him. Apparently it doesn't even really matter if he doesn't send it to me, so long as he sends it to the court which it seems he has.

    - I subsequently received an email from the MCOL service formally inviting me to mediation on a specified date and time window.

    - I formally agreed to the mediation appointment via telephone call (as instructed in the email) before the deadline.

    - A couple of weeks ago I received a N271 Notice of Transfer of Proceedings letter in the post, informing me that the case had been transferred to the Claimant's home court.

    - I telephoned the court on 20/11 and disputed the transfer, quoting CPR 26.2A(3). I was told by the lady on the phone that she would put it before the Judge.

    - She also told me that since I had received that letter it meant that mediation was no longer happening. I don't know what significance this has really, either the Claimant did not respond, or could not make the date offered.

    - I telephoned the court again yesterday to ask for an update and was told that the Judge had ordered that it be transferred to my home court. I have not yet received formal notification of this in the post.

    So it seems it's going to court. I believe I have a strong case but have been informed that nothing is certain in Small Claims Court.

    Leave a comment:


  • des8
    replied
    PMs are not encouraged on this site, for the very reason that they can be missed, individual posters could be ill, absent or just stopped posting.
    If you want to be surer of a response keep in the public domain

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    I sent (several) PMs with updates and recently a request for help but have not received a response to any of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Amethyst
    replied
    Have you heard anything further since returning the DQ ?

    Leave a comment:


  • GBExile
    replied
    Originally posted by DTrebor View Post
    Am I not going to be penalised or at least looked upon dimly by a judge for refusing mediation?
    You are not refusing mediation.

    You are accepting mediation on the basis that you receive further information.

    Leave a comment:


  • DTrebor
    replied
    Am I not going to be penalised or at least looked upon dimly by a judge for refusing mediation?

    Leave a comment:

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