Private car sale to trader - received court claim

[GBExile]

The answers are:

1 - No but might be should I receive relevant information
2 - No. Other than the claim form I have received no information.
3. Yes .

You have just got to run with it & make sure you conform to the courts instructions. It is also normal for the court to have a backlog of processing. They normally catch up after about 7-10 days.

You are not muddying the water by stating to the court you have had no proof. It is a fact you have had no proof & even if you did he is a trader.

You are just going to have to wait for the witness statement exchange which is the next important step.

[DTrebor]

Just to update the thread - this has progressed to the mediation phase. I have been emailed today to invite me to accept a mediation appointment in early December.

Just prior to this, even though I had been progressing the claim using the online MCOL service, I received an email directing me to complete an N180 Directions Questionnaire. I was directed to email this back to MCOL and the Claimant, which I did on the 01/11 via email and tracked post. The deadline to do this under penalty of possibly defaulting the case was 04/11.

I have not had any correspondance of any kind from the Claimant since the last text message I received.

The email I received today said:

"The above parties have all filed a Directions Questionnaire (N180) and have all requested mediation."

I spoke to the Money Claim service on the phone and the lady said that they are working through a backlog of DQs, and could not confirm whether they had even received a DQ from the Claimant. I certainly haven't.

The mediation invite email also says the following:

Please read the following 3 statements:

1. For mediation to be successful you would need to be willing to negotiate on the amount of the claim and have a degree of flexibility. Can you agree to this?
2. Can you confirm that you have enough information about the claim to allow you to enter into negotiations and that you do not require any further evidence from the other party before you can mediate
3. Can you confirm you are available for the entire timeslot on the date stated in the offer?

Mediation is only available to you if you can answer YES to all 3 statements above. If you cannot answer YES to all statements, mediation is NOT suitable for your case.

Regards point 2 - I have still not received any evidence of the fault, or the quote, or repair. As things stand the Claimant is just asking me for money. So I don't know how I could honestly answer YES to point 2. How can I negotiate with someone who is basically just saying "give me some money" ?

I also don't know if getting into the evidence of the fault or repair is actually relevant to my case or not, or whether it would be damaging to focus on it. The car was sold privately to a trader who inspected and test drove the car. It was not misrepresented. To my mind therefore it does not matter legally whether a fault occurs 5 mins or 5 months down the line. It is unfortunate, but I don't believe I have any liability.

Am I muddying the waters by getting into the whole "where's the quote for the work / repair bill" aspect of the claim?

[GBExile]

Just post the whole thing 1st class signed for to the court address.

No need to worry then.

[DTrebor]

Ok I am stuck now. I have entered the Defence online, and it has taken me to a step where I need to put in a "Timeline of Events" and then subsequently "List any Evidence".

I am being presented with what's on this PDF (page 7) - https://legalbeagles.info/wp-content...-claimants.pdf

Both steps are optional but the "List any Evidence" guidance suggests that "If you have any documents, such as invoices,. photographs, agreements, that you will rely on in bringing your case, enter them here" - so it seems important that I should mention something, but what? Text messages? The original advert? Evidence of the full service history? Evidence of his adverts?

How specific with the timeline do I need to be? For example he has included everything on one date - the day he bought the car - but he paid a deposit before that date, for example. I don't know how specific I need to be on this bit.

Please help!

[GBExile]

Amethyst ?

[GBExile]

Anyone have any comments?

I think you have covered it all.

Now all you can do is collate the screen shots & keep checking up on any amendments he makes.

[DTrebor]

Anyone have any comments?

[DTrebor]

Amethyst GBExile and everyone else who would like to offer advice, here is my updated Defence:

---

Notwithstanding the fact that the Claimant has failed to comply with the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and Protocol, the Defendant pleads to the entirety of the Particulars of Claim as follows:

1. The Claimant is a motor trader carrying on business in buying & selling motor vehicles under the trading name of COMPANY NAME, located at COMPANY ADDRESS.

2. The Defendant is a private individual, with no mechanical knowledge or expertise.

3. The Defendant accepts that he sold a vehicle to the Claimant on 31/07/2019 for the sum of £18,500.

4. The Claimant purchased the vehicle in person and inspected the vehicle in full prior to purchasing it.

5. The Claimant test drove the vehicle himself for no less than 7 miles (with Defendant in passenger seat) during which time no faults or problems were identified.

6. The vehicle was advertised and sold as a private sale, with the registration of the vehicle being transferred to the Claimant in his company’s name – COMPANY NAME, at the address: COMPANY ADDRESS.

7. The Claimant paid a deposit of £250 to hold the vehicle by bank transfer on 29/07/2019 at 20:49, and a further payment of £18,250 by bank transfer on 31/07/2019 at 12:06.

8. The Defendant received a text message from the Claimant on 31/07/2019 at 13:32 which stated, “Just on the m5 and I notice the rear diff is starting to make a noise when off the gas”.

9. The Defendant did not witness the noise as described by the Claimant and no evidence of the noise, or the subsequent diagnosis of the source of such noise, has been provided to the Defendant.

10. It is admitted that the Defendant responded to the Claimant’s text message stating that if the Claimant had the vehicle looked at he would consider the way forward from there.

11. The Defendant is unable to admit or deny the Claimant’s assertion that it was reported "“the internal bearing on the rear differential had completely disintegrated with a cost of £3600 to repair"”. The Claimant has not produced evidence of any such report, nor any estimate or invoice for cost of repair.

12. The Defendant accepts that it was said to the Claimant that the vehicle would not need anything doing to it until the next MOT before it was purchased but disputes the scope of the statement. The statement was made in context of the vehicle having received its full service in January 2019, including 4 new tyres fitted, with its next MOT due in November 2019, and therefore no scheduled maintenance was expected before that date. It would be impossible for any individual to guarantee that a vehicle could not develop a fault at any time due to wear and tear or misuse, a fact the Claimant would have been acutely aware of as an experienced motor trader.

13. The Defendant is unable to admit or deny the Claimant’s assertion that he has “"a bill not far off £4000"” as no evidence of any report, estimate or invoice has been provided to the Defendant.

14. The Defendant was not aware of the alleged fault prior to sale and would not have had the competence to identify it.

15. The Claimant stated in multiple text messages that he did not blame the Defendant for the alleged fault, and that he believed the Defendant was not aware of the alleged fault at point of sale.

16. Upon receipt of the claim in this case the Defendant had a look online and has found the Claimant listed the car for sale on eBay, Gumtree, Car & Classic and his own website – https://COMPANYWEBSITE, with no mention of the alleged fault or any issues with the vehicle. The adverts have been placed under the name of COMPANY NAME and further demonstrates that the Claimant is in fact an experienced motor trader.

---

Please let me know your thoughts.

Regards your previous suggestion Amethyst - I don't know exactly what time the vehicle was "collected", the Claimant drove the vehicle perhaps 5-10 minutes after payment had been made. Full payment was received at 12:06 and I have an email from DVLA confirming the online keeper transfer at 12:26 which was done after he had left.

For what it's worth I have been responding to the claim online, per the instructions on the claim letter. As such I assume it deals with sending on my Defence to wherever it needs to go.

[GBExile]

No need to send the defence to the claimant, only the court. The court send a copy to the claimant. After that everything is copied to the claimant

Thank you for correcting me.

[ostell]

No need to send the defence to the claimant, only the court. The court send a copy to the claimant. After that everything is copied to the claimant

[GBExile]

I have read your defence & it all seems OK to me.

You just have to submit it to court & a copy to him & carry on with your life for a few months.

When the invoice turns up for the work then give me a PM.

Just open all your post until the matter is over with.

Should anything happen that you are concerned about later then just message me.

By the way he has just messaged me offering the dropped down price of £24k. Telling me I will not find a better example with complete history by the owners blah blah etc etc

[GBExile]

Do you think it would be important or worthwhile to note in the Defence that the vehicle is modified ("remapped" to increase engine power) ?

The remap would have likely invalidated any manufacturer warranty claim on the car (if such a warranty existed), particularly where the fault occured in a powertrain component. Furthermore the remap would place additional stress on engine components, hence why an engine related claim would be invalidated.

The original advert mentioned that it was modified, the Claimant was aware of it - remarking upon it positively during the test drive, and has himself advertised the car including the modification (as it is a value add to the vehicle).

Why do you think that is important?

The claimant is using that as a selling tool.

[DTrebor]

Do you think it would be important or worthwhile to note in the Defence that the vehicle is modified ("remapped" to increase engine power) ?

The remap would have likely invalidated any manufacturer warranty claim on the car (if such a warranty existed), particularly where the fault occured in a powertrain component. Furthermore the remap would place additional stress on engine components, hence why an engine related claim would be invalidated.

The original advert mentioned that it was modified, the Claimant was aware of it - remarking upon it positively during the test drive, and has himself advertised the car including the modification (as it is a value add to the vehicle).

[GBExile]

Amethyst.

The time of the text & call is very relevant but yet to come into play. I will PM you and you will get it because it will bury the claimant should what I feel to be correct is correct & I would bet every penny I have that it is indeed what will happen next should this idiot continue with his claim.

[Amethyst]

Sorry - force of habit xx Pasting to here is a pain in the bum sometimes - normally best to copy paste into notepad then copy that into here if you're working on Word or anything as notepad strips hidden formatting crap out.


I think we'll take more out and reamend anyway once those bits are done to make it more defence than witness statement. Just wary of adding in arguments for him to use that he hasn't plead ( ie he hasn't actually plead that the vehicle was misdescribed or anything )