PRA Group V Laidup

[Laidup]

Hello

I have a received a court claim. Hoping for some help and guidance please!

My first question is, I have received 2 of these claims. First one arrived on Thursday 4/10, the second on Friday 5/10. They appear to be exactly the same. Should I be extra concerned about this?

I have NOT yet done the acknowledgment of service. It may be irrelevant but my first name on the claim form is not spelled correctly. There are a few ways to spell my name, mine being the most uncommon way. Do I need to correct this in the box where it asks "Defendant's fullname if different from the name given on the claim form"?

A little background. I defaulted on this loan years ago. While I cannot remember exact dates, I am reasonably sure that more than 6 years has passed since I last made a payment or acknowledged the debt. A few months after defaulting, a debt collector agent appeared on my doorstep and I arranged to pay him £5 a week which he duly turned up every week and collected the cash. One day he just stopped coming. It was a truly horrible time financially and for other personal reasons and I cannot be sure of timings as that period is a bit of a blur. As I said, I am reasonably sure that was more than 6 years ago, BUT I would not stake my life on it.

Do I send both the CCA and CPR requests to the address for sending documents?
Do I send them separately?
Do I send a subject access request letter to Provident?

Do I include a £1 postal order with all of the letters? I read somewhere that I should not sign these letters. Is that correct?

Any help gratefully received

Thank you!

[Amethyst]

If it defaulted in Dec 2009 and he showed up after a few months to collect for a few more months, it's still likely to have been over 6 years ago.... but you're right to be careful and ensure you have an alternative defence in place as back up.

Are both the claim numbers exactly the same ? And is the password for logging on to MCOL the same? if they are identical then yes I 'd be pretty comfortable just ditching one, but might be worth checking with the court to be absolutely certain.

The name mispell is probably not significant but you can correct it when you file your acknowledgment or defence, and yes you can do that in the box on the forms if you're doing it on paper rather than online

So, SAR to Provident (Subject Access Request Letter)

CCA request to PRA, and CPR Request to PRA - same address so doesn't look like they've bother with a solicitors for the claim, but put them in separate envelopes. £1 only with the CCA Request. And yes, just sign the letters - do a squiggle you can identify in with your signature if you're feeling paranoid, but fraud doesn't generally happen
CCA Request
CPR 31.14 Request

An oddment in the POC where the default balance was £412 but only £268 was sold to Acktiv then to PRA ( you want both assignment notices btw) ahhhhh okay, so £5 a week for 28 weeks after default so possibly 7 months of collections from the provident guy.... still he'd have had to have waited until a year or two after you'd defaulted before starting to collect the £5's to get to it being within the last 6 years so don't think that changes anything.

[Laidup]

Thank you very much for your reply.

I have just done the acknowledgment of service online, and corrected the misspelling of my name. Just wasn't sure what to do with that.

The claim forms are identical. I will attempt to contact the court tomorrow and check.

Can I make reference to my defense being one of statute of limitation in either of the CCA or CPR requests? Or is that better left for when I need to file my defense?

Do I specifically need to ask for both assignment notices or will asking for "Assignment notices" do?

Am I right in thinking I can only ask for the agreement and the assignment notices as that is all they have referenced in the claim?

The debt collector agent that turned up at my door was not from provident, but he was also not from Aktiv Kapital or PRA. I cannot recall where he said he was from. He was really lovely though

It is never a good time for these things to happen, but now really is not a good time. I have been in hospital for weeks following major surgery and just got home Saturday gone. It is only by chance these claims were opened at all. I stopped opening mail addressed to me with the wrong spelling years ago as it was always marketing junk. My partner was opening my mail in my absence. Guess it is lucky I haven't ended up with a default judgement when I have worked really hard to keep my nose financially clean since provident!

Thanks again for you assistance, much appreciated

[Laidup]

Hello

I have received this in the mail today. Can anyone explain what it means. I have no idea what those two pages
"pre purchase payment history" are about.

What should my next step be?

Thank you kindly!

[Amethyst]

Morning xx Sorry I missed your previous post, I hope you are feeling better and recovering well now, this claim aside.

So pre-purchase payment history will be payments made before the current owner of the debt bought the debt. It looks like you were in some kind of pro-rata payment debt management plan paying £3.01 a month until April 2014. However that doesn't scan with what you thought..

A few months after defaulting, a debt collector agent appeared on my doorstep and I arranged to pay him £5 a week which he duly turned up every week and collected the cash.

so need to have think back on that. £3.01 doesn't sound like an amount you'd pay a doorstep collector. Maybe you can try get hold of a bank statement from a couple of those dates and see if there was either £3.01 going out or a larger figure going to a debt management company that they were then splitting up and passing on to creditors?

(number wise 3.01 over 48 months would work out the correct balance from default until you stopped paying that history shows monthly payments from May 2011 to May 2014 / 35 months which adds up to £105 …. so it may have gone on for a year before then - not sure why it would only start in May 2011 if you'd started with the £3.01 payments in May 2010 though)

It was sold to Activ in Aug 2014 so that scans with the payment history too.

PRA are saying that they don't have the agreement for now so is currently unenforceable. However as you are at court already you do still need to file a defence before the 33 days from the date of issue ( safe to enter on 1st November) You can mention this response in your defence although it is just a standard letter sent with zero consideration of the actual claim in progress but hopefully it should instigate an order from the court for PRA to provide the agreement or be struck out.

[Laidup]

Thank you Amethyst. Recovery is going slow and still pretty much laid up!!

I thought that is what the pre payment list may be and it is not true. I did go back and look at my bank statements anyway, back till October 2012 is as far as I could go. There are no payments that would suggest I was paying a debt but I knew there would not be. What do I do about these supposed payments as I absolutely did not make them.

Do I need to respond to pra at all or just wait to file my defense?

Thank you again for your help. I am very grateful to not have to navigate this alone

[Laidup]

Just giving this a little bump. Not sure about my next move. Thanks

[Amethyst]

Very strange. So you've not been in any debt management plan or anything at all between 2009 and 2014?

This is also weird

The debt collector agent that turned up at my door was not from provident, but he was also not from Aktiv Kapital or PRA.

CRM could be customer relationship manager = Debtrak ( Id assumed it was some accounting system they used) - ahh no ( Googled) "Debt collection software system designed to cater for the entire debt lifecycle" ( clients in U.K. - CCI U.K. - NCO Europe )

Have we sent a SAR to Provident? If not we should.
https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

Anyway we should reply to that letter and ask for further info on those payments.

[Amethyst]

Just thinking on a reply - redo in your own words anyway but don't mark it without prejudice.


xxxxxx


date

xxxxxx


Dear PRA

Ref: Claim Number xxxxxxxxx / Account Ref xxxxx(fromclaimform)xxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 15th October 2018 in regards my formal s.77-79 Consumer Credit Act request. It is understood that you do not currently have access to the relevant documents and will provide them as soon as you are able. Unfortunately as the account has been taken to court I am tied somewhat by the courts timetable and shall be entering my defence within 28 days of service of the claim accordingly.

In the meantime though, attached to your letter (without any explanation) were two pages entitled " Pre-purchase Payments". Although the reference for Account ID/Account Number etc matches the reference number you have provided in your particulars of claim, and the maths apparently account for the difference between the alleged account balance at the time of default and the account balance which is alleged to have been assigned to yourselves, I do not recognise these payments at all. I have checked back through my bank account to October 2012 ( which is all I am able to do without a specific request to my bank ) and there are no payments of the amounts of £3.01 or £6.02 on or around the dates listed. It would be a strange amount to pay a doorstep collector ( such as Provident), and beyond 2010 I have not had anyone visit me to collect any loans payments at all. Therefore I would appreciate it if you could look into the matter and inform me of the method of these payments so I can further check my records.

As always IF this loan is genuine and owed ( and not time barred under the Limitations Act 1980) I am not wishing to avoid my responsibilities, however this is simply a mystery to me and I am perplexed. I look forward to receiving more information as soon as possible.

Please also note I have corrected the spelling of my first name on the court claim documents. I wonder now whether this may be a case of mistaken identity / ID theft as I'm sure had I completed any documentation regarding a loan from Provident I would have spelt my own name correctly. If you could investigate that further it would be appreciated as well.

In case you aren't aware, I have also sent a formal request for copies of the default/termination notices and notices of assignment as mentioned in your statement of case, so it may be useful to combine your reply with copies of those documents.

Kind regards

xxxxxxxxx

[Laidup]

Good Afternoon. Thank you for that Amethyst and apologies for my delay in replying. Unfortunately I had a set back after surgery and was sent back to hospital for a couple of days. I can absolutely do without this and if I could afford to pay it I would just to make it go away. Oh well!

I have yet to hear back from provident regarding the SAR. I will send the letter about to PRA, recorded 1st, today. I have not redone it, yours sounds perfect just the way it is!!

I should also start thinking about what to write in my defense. Could you give me some pointers please?

Thank you very much!

[Amethyst]

Example Defence

is a good starting point but we'll want to amend for the info we have received about the claim. You have a a week or so before you have to file the defence so have a couple days off and try recuperate a little, and let us know anything you do receive from PRA, we'll put something together next Monday, then we should be ready to file it with court on Thursday 1st Nov ( if you're doing it on Moneyclaim online ).

[Laidup]

Good evening. I havent heard a thing from pra/provident and I think time is probably up. Unless something appears in tomorrows mail. Have not even had an acknowledgement to the last letter I sent.

I am doing my defence online.

[Laidup]

Hello

I have jigged about with my defense. Does this look ok? Should I include the latest letter asking them to provide proof of those supposed payments I made? If so, how do I word that? Do I have a time to do it by tomorrow? Thanks again for the help!



1. I received the claim [Claim Number] from the Northampton County Court on 06/10/2018 .



2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defense.



3.This claim appears to be for a loan agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.



4. The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years.



5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.



6. On 10/10/2018 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to PRA Group. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the agreement and notice of assignment.



7. On 10/10/2018 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to PRA Group pursuant to section [77 or 78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.



8. The claimant has not sent any of these documents to me.



9. The Claimant has failed to comply with [s77 (1) / s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.



10. It is denied that Provident served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.



11. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Provident to Aktiv Kapital Portfolio on 26/08/2014 . The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.



12. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from Aktiv Kapital Portfolio to PRA Group on 31/12/2014 . The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.



13. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.



14. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.



15. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defense, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.



16. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

[Laidup]

Anybody Thanks!

[Amethyst]

Will have a look through now xxx