Small claims help for SAR advice please

[Dazzleparker]

Trustpilot tend to remove things first and ask questions later - the chat log could have the names redacted.

did you write any other text or is the defamation on that post said to be that foxglove is outfox ? ( as the rest isn't defamation ) Other than the dd comms is there any evidence that they are the same company ?

The FB groups etc are more likely to be their complaint although they don't state what the posts are they are complaining of and what meaning they attribute to them, not what 'serious harm' has been caused.

You did get your refund from outfox didn't you ? so your complaint is only against the bank now ? and the ICO re the lack of response to the SAR?

I posted on there Facebook site and stated in my opinion the money taken was fraud
yes I eventually got a refund after 10 weeks
i spoken to ICO and they a educational agency they advise and assist in getting my SAR delivered but any action is decided by them
to date I have not had my SAR replied to
ive had threatening legal letters as above in an attempt to stop me asking.
whats annoying me is my bank blatantly refuses to accept my case.
now when I get a copy of my SAR I can prove my bank cards were taken from outfoxthemarket and used by Fischer energy without my permission
then I can suggest my bank wouldn’t of failed in the DD payments as funds should of been there
if the ICO will not force outfoxthemarket to give me my SAR my only course of action is through the courts.
i accept its expensive but I honestly have no other avenue

[charitynjw]

If it were me i'd email Trustpilot Compliance & ask them to point out exactly what is libelous.


14 Got questions, need more information or have feedback?

Our Website includes a Support Center section which contains extensive information about our services and these Guidelines. Find it here: support.trustpilot.com/hc/en-us.

We welcome your questions and feedback about our services and these Guidelines. Please email us at: compliance@trustpilot.com.

[Dazzleparker]

I regularly get emails from trust pilot and asking me to remove this word and sentence
i edit it and it’s reviewed and published
hour later blocked
check outfoxthemarket on Trustpilot there are hundreds of examples as mine
but I am past caring I just want the SAR now I’m beyond caring if they go bang or not
but my bank siding against me upset me.
they claim I gave the details and responsible
im just a normal guy badly wronged and willing now to pay a court to order the information I’m told by law I’m entitled to
but no idea how to word court actions etc

[charitynjw]

Amethyst

If memory serves, I believe that I read somewhere about some *turnip* who tried threatening defamation.
Epic failure, that!

& wasn't there summat about some website or other & some Really Lousy Pipsqueaks?

Also

https://defamationlawblog.fieldfishe...n-serious-harm

[Dazzleparker]

Yes I’m not concerned with there threats.
they show no example and anything I have said I will stand by as a customer who has had a tough time.
the letter is just another example of a company trying to prevent anyone from proving there stance and honestly the amount of calls I have had explaining no customer is owed money and my case was more difficult as DD and card payments went through so many accounts before showing on my account and estimated readings etc etc
in December I updated my account with weekly meter readings all of them ignored
fortunately my new supplier organised a meter read at change over and even then originally outfoxthemarket charged to a reading I have not even used yet months later
can I send a online claim today? And use the previous SAR dates or do I need a diffrent one?
it doesn’t help outfoxthemarket demand all SAR are made via email adress
but I would realy like to crack on with this

[charitynjw]

What exactly have you in mind re your grounds for cause to sue? (Particulars of Claim.)

[Amethyst]

Ok, so you are looking to go to court to enforce the DPA and force company to comply with your SAR ?

[Dazzleparker]

My objective isn’t to sue if I can help it
i just would like the court to order the company to comply with data protection and issue my SAR
was kind of hoping if a court orders it and they ignore they in contempt?
or am I being niave?
i just want the proof I can go to bank and show them the transaction was not authorised and although I accept I had given outfoxthemarket my card details in no way should Fischer energy should of used it
eventually I would like an apology from my bank
it ruined Xmas for me, a month of benefit gone a week before Xmas along with the inevitable problems having no money and normal bills come hurt me.
having my bank in writing state I contributed to my situation by owing Fischer energy and trying not to pay my bills compounded my pain
but at this stage I just want the court to make an order that outfoxthemarket comply with the law and give my SAR

[Amethyst]

No that's fine. How did you make your initial subject access request to them? ( do you have a copy?) - lets start from the beginning and ensure there's nothing weird that might stand in the way of a successful claim.

Bastian Plc Group (also referred to as ’we’, ’us’, ’our’ or ’Bastian Plc’) in this policy primarily refers to the operating corporate group to which at the time of this policy includes the companies Foxglove Energy Supply [comprising of Outfox the Market, Eco7 Energy & Fischer Energy], Premier Radiators, Fischer Future Heat, Ekorad and Novorad. Bastian Plc Group is the "data controller" of all personal information that is collected and used by the above group companies and brands for the purposes of the UK Data Protection Bill and the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). Bastian Plc is registered as 10972150 at address Northbridge Place, Frog Island, Leicester, Leicestershire, United Kingdom, LE3 5DH.

Only Foxglove(t/as Fischer (and presumably now outfox although it hasn't been updated)) is registered as a data controller - ref ZA225859 - https://ico.org.uk/ESDWebPages/Entry/ZA225859


Their terms

Requesting your Data

We have appointed a Data Protection Officer ("DPO") to oversee compliance with this policy. You have the right to make a complaint at any time to this authority.

Under certain circumstances, by law you have the right to:

• Request information about whether we hold personal information about you, and, if so, what that information is and why we are holding/using it.
• Request access to your personal information (commonly known as a "data subject access request"). This enables you to receive a copy of the personal information we hold about you and to check that we are lawfully processing it.
• Request correction of the personal information that we hold about you. This enables you to have any incomplete or inaccurate information we hold about you corrected.
• Request erasure of your personal information. This enables you to ask us to delete or remove personal information where there is no good reason for us continuing to process it. You also have the right to ask us to delete or remove your personal information where you have exercised your right to object to processing (see below).
• Object to processing of your personal information where we are relying on a legitimate interest (or those of a third party) and there is something about your particular situation which makes you want to object to processing on this ground. You also have the right to object where we are processing your personal information for direct marketing purposes.
• Object to automated decision-making including profiling, that is not to be subject of any automated decision-making by us using your personal information or profiling of you.
• Request the restriction of processing of your personal information. This enables you to ask us to suspend the processing of personal information about you, for example if you want us to establish its accuracy or the reason for processing it.
• Request transfer of your personal information in an electronic and structured form to you or to another party (commonly known as a right to "data portability"). This enables you to take your data from us in an electronically useable format and to be able to transfer your data to another party in an electronically useable format.
• Withdraw consent. In the limited circumstances where you may have provided your consent to the collection, processing and transfer of your personal information for a specific purpose, you have the right to withdraw your consent for that specific processing at any time. Once we have received notification that you have withdrawn your consent, we will no longer process your information for the purpose or purposes you originally agreed to, unless we have another legitimate basis for doing so in law.

If you want to exercise any of these rights, then please contact our DPO by:

• Email at Privacy@Bastianplc.co.uk
• Data Protection Officer, Fischer Head Office, North Mills, Frog Island, Leicester, LE3 5DH
• Phone on 0800 092 7480

You will not have to pay a fee to access your personal information (or to exercise any of the other rights). However, we may charge a reasonable fee if your request for access is clearly unfounded or excessive. Alternatively, we may refuse to comply with the request in such circumstances.

We may need to request specific information from you to help us confirm your identity and ensure your right to access the information (or to exercise any of your other rights). This is another appropriate security measure to ensure that personal information is not disclosed to any person who has no right to receive it

[Dazzleparker]

I copied and edited a request on the ICO website
i included a photocopy of my driving licence and a bank statement
i offered to pay £10 if requested and supply additional information
i also welcomed a telephone call with a number they have to confirm.
i specifically asked for 2 main things
copys of the telephone calls throughout the contract and a copy of terms and conditions I signed when I joined and amendment dates.
if you look on outfoxthemarket they now have no data protection policy (I thought that was ilegal)
the ICO got involved in February and to date they had no reply from outfoxthemarket
but as I said the mysterious payment was taken by Fischer energy passed to fisher future heat and then to foxglove energy before my account on outfoxthemarket showed credit.
i was told this is all legal and in my terms and conditions and although I was not in arrears I was stated as a debtor
my refund after the final bill came from foxglove energy according to bank statements
sorry I know it’s confusing
Bastian plc is the company (until letter never knew they existed) with legal threats of absolutely every crime I could imagine
I do believe the letter is an attempt to prevent me asking for help to get my SAR as they fully aware why I want it and what I intend to do with it

[charitynjw]

Out of interest, is this still ongoing with ICO?

[Amethyst]

Do you have a copy of the SAR that you sent? - where did you send it to?

Once the 30 days had passed did you send a chaser or go direct to the ICO ? Did the ICO respond to your complaint in writing at all that you can paste here please.

Did you actually ever get any response from OTM saying they wouldn't comply or simply no response at all?

Outfox do have a Privacy Policy ( I pasted a part of it above but it's here - https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/PrivacyPolicy.aspx and their terms and conditions are https://www.outfoxthemarket.co.uk/Te...onditions.aspx )

[Dazzleparker]

Just checked my mails
i posted first SAR to privacy@bastianplc.co.uk on 18 December and 23december 2018

i posted a second SAR advising this is my formal second request 12 January 2019
on 4 February 2019 I wrote to ICO a letter as they advised informing them of outfoxthemarket non compliance
yesterday on 12 March 2019 I rang the ICO who wasn’t helpful.
they stated they had written to data controller and it was explained to me very clearly a company can withhold a SAR and the ombudsman was one that is educational
the ICO also refused to comment if my case is isolated I have read many also ignored and stated I had no influence on any outcome of the ICO investigation
my wife thinks now Bastian is taking legal action any pushing any further will aggravate things.
but I past caring
i don’t recall ever being rasist or sexually offensive and I cannot envisage how either of those things somehow work into any of my social media comments.
as for damaging the brand I do accept that what I’ve said here today certainly has not done the brand any favours, but it’s all true nothing elaborated that I can think of.
sadly I am unable to prove to this site I didn’t give permission to use my cash card, no one can prove they never gave permission
my answer to how did they have all the details needed was simple I topped up my energy account previously in the year to avoid a DD increase as we had a cracking summer and I stupidly bought a air conditioning unit without considering the running costs and when I realised I paid via debit card rather than increase my DD and have wife nag
so to even satisfy help sites like this I realy need to prove I did not authorise a card payment and as they are claiming my statements are libellous I need that even more.
its like a stand-off
if I speak I am sued for libel, if I don’t speak bank gets away with hanging me out to dry

[Amethyst]

There are actually a few comments on the FB groups which could actually be deemed defamatory - it is not simply a case that you have posted what your experience with the company has been. There seems to be quite a bit of comment that surrounds misunderstandings as to how the company structure and finances work and some of the accusations could well be deemed defamatory should they bring action. Additionally it wouldn't be ' across all our local courts' as a claim in defamation has to be brought at High Court directly. There is a difference between having a legitimate complaint with a company and discussing it and making accusations and personal attacks against staff and owners without evidence because you are angry about the legitimate complaint. Just a warning.

Additionally they may have legitimate reason to withold access to your data if there is evidence your intention is to use it for non legitimate purposes ( ie posting it and using it as an attack or instead of pre-action disclosure if you intend on litigation against them ( for something other than the failure to comply with your SAR ).

Basically you're not helping yourself and you risk ending up with a defamation claim and a failed application for your SAR info in court with costs against you.

Stick to exactly what happened, the facts, and your actual complaint, and not some weird 'take down the company' type conspiracy thing lol.

Now, I think, we need to go back and look at the facts surrounding the increase in the DD, the card payment etc and your potential complaint to the bank before you get bogged down further with the SAR. Can you do a timeline please.

[Amethyst]

i posted first SAR to privacy@bastianplc.co.uk on 18 December and 23december 2018

i posted a second SAR advising this is my formal second request 12 January 2019
on 4 February 2019 I wrote to ICO a letter as they advised informing them of outfoxthemarket non compliance
yesterday on 12 March 2019 I rang the ICO who wasn’t helpful.
they stated they had written to data controller and it was explained to me very clearly a company can withhold a SAR and the ombudsman was one that is educational

Okay that sounds fine. Think we'd need to see the final response from the ICO.

the ICO also refused to comment if my case is isolated I have read many also ignored and stated I had no influence on any outcome of the ICO investigation

They would do, to do so would be a DPA breach