Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

The claimant himself should have served you with them, so I think you should contact them to request how you get an extension or else you will have to file the defence by the date the court directs. Ask them what they are setting as you deadline and to confirm that via email.

OK - I will do. What a mess.

Ive insisted the court team call me as emails to them take 5 days to process and seem to get lost in their systems. So i've had to push them to call me back.

If worse comes to worse, i could serve the defence by friday and hopefully it will get there by monday and then write in the covering letter what has happened i guess.

[jaguarsuk]

OK the latest in the saga of incompetence by the claimant and the ccmcc is :-

They sent us a letter today saying that filing of the POC with them was on the 17th September. They however didnt bother to forward it on to us and nor did the claimant.

We only received it on the 26th September !!!

So our deadline should have been 24th October and not 15thh October (28 days from 17th September).

I am right to try and force them to correct this ? And how do i force them ? Shouldnt the claimant have told them to forward it to us or shouldnt they have known themselves

The claimant himself should have served you with them, so I think you should contact them to request how you get an extension or else you will have to file the defence by the date the court directs. Ask them what they are setting as you deadline and to confirm that via email.

[Ssssssssss]

No you can include it in the witness statement when it comes to that later.

OK the latest in the saga of incompetence by the claimant and the ccmcc is :-

They sent us a letter today saying that filing of the POC with them was on the 17th September. They however didnt bother to forward it on to us and nor did the claimant.

We only received it on the 26th September !!!

So our deadline should have been 24th October and not 15thh October (28 days from 17th September).

I am right to try and force them to correct this ? And how do i force them ? Shouldnt the claimant have told them to forward it to us or shouldnt they have known themselves

[jaguarsuk]

OK thats a great idea. I'll do exactly that. Thank you !

I had just one other question and that is that we have gathered information on the claimants previous bathroom company that he liquidated last year. We found that out of 12 reviews online, 11 were only 1 star and also that the company itself has 2 previous CCJ's.

If we needed to use this information in the future would i need to "declare" it so to speak on the defence form. I hadnt added it just yet because i thought it might give the guy a chance to find a way to delete the online stuff or something. Or can i just use it when they ask for witness statements or something and not worry about writing anything about it now?

No you can include it in the witness statement when it comes to that later.

[Ssssssssss]

I would fill two forms, attach them together and cross out the counter claim fee section on one of them. Send a cover letter explaining that it's one claim and one counter claim requiring one fee.

OK thats a great idea. I'll do exactly that. Thank you !

I had just one other question and that is that we have gathered information on the claimants previous bathroom company that he liquidated last year. We found that out of 12 reviews online, 11 were only 1 star and also that the company itself has 2 previous CCJ's.

If we needed to use this information in the future would i need to "declare" it so to speak on the defence form. I hadnt added it just yet because i thought it might give the guy a chance to find a way to delete the online stuff or something. Or can i just use it when they ask for witness statements or something and not worry about writing anything about it now?

[jaguarsuk]

There is only one signature and one date of birth box too. It's a really badly designed form

We had to send in two separate Acknowledge of Service forms in for the same reason. It's just that because N9B is asking for the fee to be paid, its not as straightforward as the AoS forms were.

I would fill two forms, attach them together and cross out the counter claim fee section on one of them. Send a cover letter explaining that it's one claim and one counter claim requiring one fee.

[Ssssssssss]

In the Defendant box on the 1st line write "1st: <<Name of defendant 1>>" then on the next line "2nd: <<Name of defendant 2>>" then you can use the same form for both as it is issued against both.

There is only one signature and one date of birth box too. It's a really badly designed form

We had to send in two separate Acknowledge of Service forms in for the same reason. It's just that because N9B is asking for the fee to be paid, its not as straightforward as the AoS forms were.

[jaguarsuk]

I have to submit 2 N9B forms as they only accommodate one defendant per form, but the form asks for a counterclaim fee to be paid. If i fill out the counterclaim fee on both forms, wont that cause a problem ? Or do i just write a note in there to say its a joint fee ? Is the filling out of the forms that i dont understand.

In the Defendant box on the 1st line write "1st: <<Name of defendant 1>>" then on the next line "2nd: <<Name of defendant 2>>" then you can use the same form for both as it is issued against both.

[Ssssssssss]

Both Defendants are Counter Claimants under Part 20 the single Claimant is the Part 20 Defendant. One fee should be paid by you as it is one Counter Claim in the same way that his claim is one claim against multiple defendants. He paid one fee and so do you.

I have to submit 2 N9B forms as they only accommodate one defendant per form, but the form asks for a counterclaim fee to be paid. If i fill out the counterclaim fee on both forms, wont that cause a problem ? Or do i just write a note in there to say its a joint fee ? Is the filling out of the forms that i dont understand.

[jaguarsuk]

Yes we are counterclaiming against just him for sure as you suggest. But does that mean that both my mum and dad (the defendants) have to file the N9B and both of them say they are counterclaiming OR should one say he is counterclaim and the other say she is just defending? The CCMCC seemed to think that if they both say they are counterclaiming against the one claimant, they both would have to file the court fee so effectively filing it twice ?

Both Defendants are Counter Claimants under Part 20 the single Claimant is the Part 20 Defendant. One fee should be paid by you as it is one Counter Claim in the same way that his claim is one claim against multiple defendants. He paid one fee and so do you.

[Ssssssssss]

1. Check with the court to verify this is the case.

2. Then what the court have advised is correct, if you have contracted with the 1 Claimant, just Counter Claim against him. By including the 2nd Claimant you would be essentially launching a separate claim against him, which would mean figuring out what exactly is owed by whom to you. Keep it simple and just Counter Claim against the Claimant whom has claimed against you.

Yes we are counterclaiming against just him for sure as you suggest. But does that mean that both my mum and dad (the defendants) have to file the N9B and both of them say they are counterclaiming OR should one say he is counterclaim and the other say she is just defending? The CCMCC seemed to think that if they both say they are counterclaiming against the one claimant, they both would have to file the court fee so effectively filing it twice ?

[jaguarsuk]

1. We think our deadline date will be 28 days from 26th September which is when we received the particulars of claim s

2. Their claim is 1 claimant and 2 defendants (my mum and dad).

1. Check with the court to verify this is the case.

2. Then what the court have advised is correct, if you have contracted with the 1 Claimant, just Counter Claim against him. By including the 2nd Claimant you would be essentially launching a separate claim against him, which would mean figuring out what exactly is owed by whom to you. Keep it simple and just Counter Claim against the Claimant whom has claimed against you.

[Ssssssssss]

1. If you were to send it now you would be obligated to wait until the Claimant has had time to respond to the request before filing the defence, depending on your deadline to file then it might not be worth it. They have 7 days to reply, so what is your deadline date to file?

2. Have they brought the claim against you together, listed as 1st and 2nd Claimants?

We think our deadline date will be 28 days from 26th September which is when we received the particulars of claim so 24th Oct. We have just queried this with the court to make sure that is correct and they are finding out for us (because as you know the case was stayed until they file the POC so the judge might decide we dont have that much time - the CCMCC didnt refer it back to the judge until we called them but hopefully we should soon know ).

Their claim is 1 claimant and 2 defendants (my mum and dad).

[jaguarsuk]

1. You mentioned in paragraph 8 we should have sent a part 31.14 request out. Does this mean we should remove the paragraph as we didnt do that. Or should we sent a request out now ?

2. So as its a claim that has one claimant and 2 defendants, the CCMCC are saying something along the lines that if the defendants sent a counterclaim in then the court fees would be one for each defendant and therefore i should only do a counterclaim for one and not both ? Is this correct ? I don't want to split out my document as currently i have both my mum and dad signing the same document and was just going to file a copy of the same for both.

1. If you were to send it now you would be obligated to wait until the Claimant has had time to respond to the request before filing the defence, depending on your deadline to file then it might not be worth it. They have 7 days to reply, so what is your deadline date to file?

2. Have they brought the claim against you together, listed as 1st and 2nd Claimants?

[Ssssssssss]

Therefore

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £3,865.32 Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works.
2. £249.80 materials for Mosaic.
3. £2,769.68 the difference to engage a new contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works.
4. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.
5. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees.

Thank you Jaguarsuk - as you can tell i was having some real difficulty in calculating as i just assumed that it should have been what we thought we were going to pay on the old contract versus what we are now having to pay on new quote Then actual costs added to that. Thanks for your help !!

I just had a couple more questions that i was hoping you could help with - will be ready to send all this back to the court then.

1. You mentioned in paragraph 8 we should have sent a part 31.14 request out. Does this mean we should remove the paragraph as we didnt do that. Or should we sent a request out now ?

2. So as its a claim that has one claimant and 2 defendants, the CCMCC are saying something along the lines that if the defendants sent a counterclaim in then the court fees would be one for each defendant and therefore i should only do a counterclaim for one and not both ? Is this correct ? I don't want to split out my document as currently i have both my mum and dad signing the same document and was just going to file a copy of the same for both.